Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

[William D.]

Muncie 4speed trans. isn't same length as the Borg T-10 in my car, sorry about seeing redI The muncie was suppose to exchange with the T-10, so I was led to believe. Would appreciate any info as to what I'm saddled with . The muncie carries a main case #3885010 and the tail shaft has #3857584. Front input shaft is 10-spline and output shaft is 27-spline. Have not pulled the Borg yet, fortunately. Thanks all help appreciated. Bill

[Doug F.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

I run muncie, warner and saginaw transmissions in my 61, same mount, bolts ect, of course i change the yoke and shifter/linkage as required, never had any problems with it, btw, my record for remove and replace, drive it on the hoist and drive it off is 12 minutes.

[Jim D.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

I have experienced the same as Doug. No problem interchanging a Muncie and a BW. As far as 12 mins., it takes me longer than that to get a good station on the stereo and get the beer ready.

[William C.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

OK, slow down and take a look at the issue. The T-10 and the Muncie are the same length, the problem is that the Mount location on the muncie is farther foreward than on the T-10. I believe there was a flat plate about 3/8 thick used in some cases to adjust for that. I just happened to have both available in the Barn so I took a quick look. Easy fix with a mount adapter.

[Jack H.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

I'm at work and don't have my numbers book with me to confirm. However, there are two different length Muncie transmissions. The later model units 1971-1974 were a bit longer than the early models. The tailhousing number would be the number to double check for this since I've seen people do swapping on the main case which I believe is equivalent for all years.

[William C.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

There was a "long tail" version of the muncie used in some Olds and Pontiac pass cars (full size cars) Rare, but not impossible that you ran into one of them, the front cases '325 or '010 were the same but the mainshaft is longer to accomodate the longer tail. Only seen one or two of then im my life, one I had in a '65 Olds Jetstar I full size pass car that was a dealer mis-order that sat on a showroom in Columbus Oh until an Ohio State Grad bought it on the way to his first job after graduation!

[William C.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

'010 case is a standard 66-67 version case, as is the extension. As I mentioned, the rear mount is located differently on a muncie vs the early T-10 but a piece of 1/4 or 3/8 plate will make that adjustment for you. As to the trans overall, they are within 1/4 inch of each other. Note that the shift arms mount differently on a Muncie vs a T-10 also, so you need the correct shifter arms for a Muncie.

[William D.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

A late and tardy thank you Bill and team. The mount position is the problem and your right on with the plate, to allow mounting. The TAG on this muncie carries a # 3870372. For future referance what did this trans. come off of? Thanks, William

[William C.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

I don't have an exact reference to the tags, but the '010 case was used in both close ratio and wide ratio applications in the 1966-67 model years I believe the 660 case was '68-69, and 1970 up was the '661 case. I I may be off a year in the changeovers, but that is the general sequence. all GM cars with 4 speed manual except Corvair.

[Tom P.]

Re: Muncie Trans. doesn't Measure up

Within a fraction of an inch, the B-W T10 and the 63-70 Muncie are the same length (71-74 Muncies, as well as Super T10s, are 3/4in longer than the 63-70 Muncie). Thus, T10s and Muncies are completely interchangeable, with the exception, as already mentioned, the difference in tailshaft splines, 16splines for the T10 and 27splines for the Muncie (and all 63-later tranny tail shafts--------------except the larger, 32splines of the Turbbo 400, 71-74 Muncie and Super T10).

Compared below is the 16splines of the T10 (as well as 62-earlier 3spds and PGs) and 27 splines of the Muncie.


The EARLY T10s only had the tranny mount shown by the pencil. The later T10s had the longer mount added (first required for pass cars). This longer mount was first used on a Corvette in 62, and it required an adapter plate. The adapter plate is available from all of the Vette vendors (about $20) and is required for swapping a Muncie for the T10 (or 3sp) in a 56-61 Vette.


As can be seen here, the long mount on the later T10s (top) is in the same location as the mount on Muncies.



This shows the adapter plate used ONLY on 62 Vettes with a 4sp. Use this plate to install a Muncie in a 55-61 Vette.


Also, notice the longer, later mount extends about 5/8in lower than the earlier, shorter mount. Thus, a spacer needs to be installed BETWEEN the X-member of the frame and the tranny cross member (when installing a Muncie). For the 62 Vettes, there were factory installed spacers at this location which were about 1/8in thick. In my opinion, THIS IS NOT ENOUGH! On my 56 I have used 1in square tubing to space the tranny cross member down.








The Muncie tail housing (top) and the later B-W T10 tail housings have the shifter mount holes in the same location. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, T10 and Muncie shifter plates and linkage are different from each other.