Stamp pad picture, opinions?

[Wayne M.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

Probably helpful to look at a factory grind-out and restamp on a May 1965 Tonawanda LF block (396/325hp, manual trans). It shows the original broach marks continuing under the cylinder head. Bonus is the two types of "zero"s (football and water mellon).



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[Steven S.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

Perhaps I should have worded my original post differently. I understand the nuances of broach marks can be difficult to explain, but what I really wanted to discuss was the stamp, that I thought would be easier!

[Pat M.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

I'm sorry, I guess I just can't understand why we can't discuss this example right now. I guess we don't want the info posted for the counterfeiters to learn from?

I agree with Steven. Just because it might be too involved to discuss all the nuances of any given stamp pad, shouldn't mean we can't discuss some of the nuances of this particular pad.

[Mark D.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

I'm not saying for 1 second to, not discuss it. Go ahead.

[Mark D.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

I'll say one more 'thang' and then I'm gonna vanish off this thread.

Steven, Pat...I know y'all are good fellas...I know that for sure but, start going to some meets on the regional and national level. Leave your cars home or drive em to the meet without flight judging them. Sign up to OJ...do all four sections and even ops. Get to know other classes, too. Meet the guys and even get to know the NTLs and the judging chairman.

Sign up for Altoona as it sounds like it's gonna be an awesome meet with plenty to see. I'm bringing one of the original 16 1967 L89s and the owner is flying in from Canada. The original owner is going to be reunited with the car that he bought new at Yenko. Check out the engine on this one...there will be plenty to yak about.

The TDB is awesome but going to meets is ten times better. That way you can participate. I often read, this rule should be changed or that rule should be changed but those folks always want a rule to change so their car(s) can score better. (sorry, I strayed off topic for a second) Get off the couch and get to the action. You guys want me to post a link for Altoona? You want me to fill it out for you?

See you guys there,

Mark

Legal Disclaimer: If one has a physical impairment that precludes them from attending, it is not my intent to offend or embarrass.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

I'll be at Altoona because you still owe me the beer you didn't buy at Bloomington.

[Greg C.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

Not to get into the fray, but I am a newbie.

I also work for the department of defense and am stationed in Germany. Getting to Altoona, or Sandiego, or Wallawalla Washington isn't in the cards for me...

So, I am trying to sponge up what I can from Forums, books, DVDs, magazines, guides, etc etc.

Keep the knowledge flowing, wherever and however, and when I can get to the/a meet, I will.

So thanks for all of you folks that keep the online knowledge spigot open!

[Patrick B.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

Perhaps I should have worded my original post differently. I understand the nuances of broach marks can be difficult to explain, but what I really wanted to discuss was the stamp, that I thought would be easier!

Steven: Your questions are perfectly reasonable, and I will give you my observations for what they are worth.
IMG_0683.JPGIMG_0678.JPG
As many have pointed out the grain is way too rough to be typical of a big block. Original grain can be hard to see on an original deck as shown in the pictures above. I would say the 66 engine in this discussion was grained with a 40-60 grit sanding belt. 80 grit would look much better.

The 1 in every C2 big block I have seen would be an "I" very much like the I in the "IP". A numeral 1 starts to appear in 1968 and newer along with the "I", but it does not have a horizonal line as a base like this 66 engine has. Also the 2's look like 50% aspect ratio characters which are narrower than the 60% width 2's used by Tonawanda. Also Tonawanda had at least two variations of the number two (neither shaped exactly like the 2 in question) and when multiple 2s are in the same pad they are often different (like the zeros in the pad picture in one of the comments.

As far as the VIN is concerned, it did use 50% characters and the 6 and 1 in this VIN actually look OK to me.

[Steven S.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

Pat, THANK YOU! If you were here I'd be hugging you right now. That's exactly the kind of explanation I was hoping for!

[Pat M.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

Pat, THANK YOU! If you were here I'd be hugging you right now. That's exactly the kind of explanation I was hoping for!

Agreed, thanks a lot Patrick. But I'll draw the line at hugging you.

[Dick W.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

The Master just spoke, listen to him. No one learned all the nuances of pads all at one time. One of the best way to learn about pads is to look at pickups, passenger cars, etc of the vintage you are curious about. The chances of a lowly Biscayne base V-8 being restamped is almost nil. Look at the pad surface, you will see the surface vary from almost smooth to very pronounced broach marks. Characters do vary, look at as many original cars as you can. If you can, make digital pictures and view them on your 'puter. It takes years, if not a lifetime to see most of the variations and recognize them. I have a pad library (not for sale ) that I have worked on for over 25 years and still have problems making some calls. It is a challenge

[Joel F.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

The 1 in every C2 big block I have seen would be an "I" very much like the I in the "IP". A numeral 1 starts to appear in 1968 and newer along with the "I", but it does not have a horizonal line as a base like this 66 engine has. Also the 2's look like 50% aspect ratio characters which are narrower than the 60% width 2's used by Tonawanda. Also Tonawanda had at least two variations of the number two (neither shaped exactly like the 2 in question) and when multiple 2s are in the same pad they are often different (like the zeros in the pad picture in one of the comments.

109060 - X Pad.jpg

I believe this to be an original '67 pad and it has the both the character I and 1 in the assembly stamp. I have others as well but this is the clearest example, and it also highlights a pretty large spread between engine build and vehicle build.

[Patrick B.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

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I believe this to be an original '67 pad and it has the both the character I and 1 in the assembly stamp. I have others as well but this is the clearest example, and it also highlights a pretty large spread between engine build and vehicle build.

I agree this pad is original. I tend to think of the "1" character in your pad as a variation of the "I" since the top flag is horizonal like the left hand half of the top on an "I", and I did not remember to mention it. The "1" character in the 66 pad under discusion has a curved top flag like an ordinary 1, and a 1 character with a curved top flag and no bottom line begins to appear on big blocks in 1968 often mixed with the ordinary "I" and the 1 that appears on your pad. I do not believe that a 1 with a curved top flag and a base line was ever used by Tonawanda from 65 to 74.

Another thought that I neglected in my first response is that while the grain on the 66 pad was way too rough for a big block, I have seen some 62-64 327s with grain approaching the roughness of the 66 big block picture.

[Michael J.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

I have often wondered about this one:

[Patrick B.]

Re: Stamp pad picture, opinions?

I have often wondered about this one:

Michael-- Your pad looks really good to me with fine grain and characters and placement that all look typical. Have you ever had the head off? If it was restamped it was a masterful job.