Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Let's all send letters of protest to the power equipment manufacturers and ask them when they're going to get 'with it' like the car industry did 20-30 years ago. E10 is not likely to go away in the near future and ethanol resistant fuel lines and other soft components have been available for many decades.

[George J.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

I, for one, am not convinced that there is not a difference in gasoline between companies, or stations. I understand that it all gets shipped from the same one or two sources, but from there, and how it is handled, may be making the difference. I have never experienced any of these issues everyone talks about. I rebuilt my fuel injection unit ten years ago, and have been running it since. Hot weather, cold weather, you name it. No problems other than the iginition system (the part of fuelies that always makes them run badly). I use only Shell Vpower. No cheap costco, walmart, etc., gas. I never drain my snow blower, lawn mower, etc. and they all start next season. Why am I so lucky?

Nobody here that compains of their gas ever says where they buy it. If others don't have a problem with 10% ethanol and you do, it's not the ethanol, it's something else. Use logic.

George

[Dan D.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

I understand what you are saying Duke. Especially the part about all the 'lawyer' warnings (as I call them) on most everything you buy. Don't know who writes this stuff, but right or wrong, this is one of the most technically worded statements I have seen. Most of the warnings are so simple worded and obvious that they aren't even worth reading.

I'm wondering if this issue is more critical in very small engines, where orifices, lines, etc. are so small they are more critical to any amount of corrosion or foreign material. I don't see E85 becoming available in the near future, so I am not going to worry about it. I posted this because of the high number of gasoline/alcohol related threads that have been posted on the forum recently, and this one seemed to have some technical content to it, right or wrong. -Dan-

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

. I don't see E85 becoming available in the near future, so I am not going to worry about it. I posted this because of the high number of gasoline/alcohol related threads that have been posted on the forum recently, and this one seemed to have some technical content to it, right or wrong. -Dan-

???????

Dan-

E85 is 85% ethanol and has been readily available for years for 'flex fuel' equipped vehicles. No conventional engine will run very well on it without major adjustments or modifications. Your tiller manufacturer may as well have stated other obvious bits of info like 'don't use naphtha or diesel fuel'.

[Paul J.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

I, for one, am not convinced that there is not a difference in gasoline between companies, or stations. I understand that it all gets shipped from the same one or two sources, but from there, and how it is handled, may be making the difference. I have never experienced any of these issues everyone talks about. I rebuilt my fuel injection unit ten years ago, and have been running it since. Hot weather, cold weather, you name it. No problems other than the iginition system (the part of fuelies that always makes them run badly). I use only Shell Vpower. No cheap costco, walmart, etc., gas. I never drain my snow blower, lawn mower, etc. and they all start next season. Why am I so lucky?

Nobody here that compains of their gas ever says where they buy it. If others don't have a problem with 10% ethanol and you do, it's not the ethanol, it's something else. Use logic.

George

Not all parts of the Country are required to use oxygenates. Your climate is not hot enough over a prolonged period to have large areas designated by EPA as non-attainment and require E10, etc. In addition, your largest cities have seen declining industrial activity over the last 20+ years, and growth has been slow even before these difficult economic times. Combine all of that with the meteorological influences of the lakes and your air is still pretty good, even in bad times. In fact. I just checked your state and there are only maintenance areas, no non-attainment areas. Ethanol may or may not be available in your area, depending on whether the oil jobbers want to fool with it or not, but it is not required and there is a good chance that your gas does not have any ethanol in it. This would explain why you are so lucky. Use logic.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Use of oxygenates is no longer driven by "non-attainment" of air quality standards. Ethanol is now all about meeting federal "renewable" energy mandates.

California has some areas that require 1.8 - 2.2 percent oxygen during the winter months. Outside of these requirements blenders are free to use 0 to 10 percent ethanol, and it's my understanding that most California gasoline has 10 percent, by volume, ethanol (which would be 3.7 percent O2 by mass) year-round.

I believe the above is true for most of the country, but pump labeling requirements are determined by each state and some don't require a pump label disclosing ethanol.

Duke

[Paul J.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Use of oxygenates is no longer driven by "non-attainment" of air quality standards. Ethanol is now all about meeting federal "renewable" energy mandates.

Duke

Duke, you're confusing two different sets of regulations. The use of oxygenates is still mandated by the EPA's interpretation of the Clean Air Act, and areas that do not meet the Ambient Air Quality Standard for any of the 14 criteria air pollutants will either be forced to use oxygenates (for ozone non-attainment) or provide some other control to bring that area back into compliance. States find that it is easier to control mobile sources than to shut down thier industries.

Obama's mandate for renewable energy has nothing to do with EPA regulations. In fact, I have no idea how it can be enforced. I'm not aware of any regulations that the Energy Department has to force the use of ethanol (this doesn't mean that there are'nt any, I'm just not aware of them). For some reason, gasoline is controlled by the Department of Agriculture, who oversees the oil jobbers. The requirement for ethanol under Obama's energy policy must be voluntary because you can still purchase ethanol free gasoline in parts of the Country.

Paul

[Stuart F.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Back to the sending unit topic; I recently had my 2000 Impala driver in for some issues (one being a goofy gas gauge) and was told by the service department manager that I was lucky to get to 95,000 miles before experiencing sending unit problems. I decided to drive by my odometer to my next fill rather than pop for $2000 (that's about blue book on the car) to drop the tank to replace a perfectly good fuel pump just because of the sending unit. He pointed the finger at Ethanol. I can fill my 63 Vette with non-ethanol at a station down the road a piece and siphon fill my Impala from it. How does taht sound?

Stu Fox

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Back to the sending unit topic; I recently had my 2000 Impala driver in for some issues (one being a goofy gas gauge) and was told by the service department manager that I was lucky to get to 95,000 miles before experiencing sending unit problems. I decided to drive by my odometer to my next fill rather than pop for $2000 (that's about blue book on the car) to drop the tank to replace a perfectly good fuel pump just because of the sending unit. He pointed the finger at Ethanol. I can fill my 63 Vette with non-ethanol at a station down the road a piece and siphon fill my Impala from it. How does taht sound?

Stu Fox

they say that sulfur in the gasoline affects the fuel gauge sender and the addition of techron" to the fuel will help. i found in my 97 corvette if i did not "top off" after the pump shutoff i did not have any more problems with the fuel gauge readings going wackey after a fill up

[Stuart F.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Clem;

I had already followed Tom Hendrick's advise and put Techron in with the last 4 fill ups, and it did not help the problem. Also, I haven't topped up in years what with the typical warm weather we endure here in Florida. I do take it to the top on the Vette as I can see the level so well, and I know I will have it burned down by the time I get home.

Tom had told me it was more common on cars using Shell gas, which I had so it was worth a try.

Stu Fox

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Clem;

I had already followed Tom Hendrick's advise and put Techron in with the last 4 fill ups, and it did not help the problem. Also, I haven't topped up in years what with the typical warm weather we endure here in Florida. I do take it to the top on the Vette as I can see the level so well, and I know I will have it burned down by the time I get home.

Tom had told me it was more common on cars using Shell gas, which I had so it was worth a try.

Stu Fox

i use the techron evey oil change (4000 miles) on mrs clem 04 impala and with 70,000 mile so far no problem.

[John H.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Ethanol may or may not be available in your area, depending on whether the oil jobbers want to fool with it or not, but it is not required and there is a good chance that your gas does not have any ethanol in it.

Paul -

We've had E10 (years ago we called it "gasohol") here in Michigan for almost 30 years, and there's only one refinery in the whole state (operated by Marathon Oil on the south side of Detroit), which is also one of only two bulk wholesale distribution terminals in the state; the other one is further north, fed by a commodity gasoline pipeline from Indiana. That's where the brand-specific additive packages are added when the retail delivery tankers are loaded, along with the ethanol. I haven't seen a branded retail gasoline delivery tanker truck for at least ten years.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Paul -

We've had E10 (years ago we called it "gasohol") here in Michigan for almost 30 years, and there's only one refinery in the whole state (operated by Marathon Oil on the south side of Detroit), which is also one of only two bulk wholesale distribution terminals in the state; the other one is further north, fed by a commodity gasoline pipeline from Indiana. That's where the brand-specific additive packages are added when the retail delivery tankers are loaded, along with the ethanol. I haven't seen a branded retail gasoline delivery tanker truck for at least ten years.

we have a bulk terminal about 1 mile north of me and that is where the sunoco tankers are based but i see other brand tankers filling there. i was told they bring in the ethanol to mix with the gasoline in tanker trucks

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

I had a problem with the fuel gage in my '88 MBZ 190E 2.6 a few years ago. When the reading got down to about 1/4 the needle would start jumping around. I was in the habit of filling it up at about 3/8s, so the wiper rarely got lower than that, and I supected some deposit buildup on the wire wind.

I had a trip planned to Northern California - about 450 miles one way, so I started out with about 3/8 tank and added about a quarter bottle of Techron. When it got near empty I filled it to 3/8s and added another quarter of the Techron bottle and did that for two more cycles.

The fuel gage hasn't misbehaved since, and that is the only time I recall adding any kind of additive to the fuel in any of my cars going back decades.

Duke

[Jim D.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

I feel sorry for those that have all these fictitious problems blamed on ethanol. We've had it for 30 years and I've NEVER had a single problem. As far as "top tier" gas goes, that's a bunch of marketing B.S. Our Fire Training center was across the street from a refinery and I've seen ALL the labeled gas trucks go in and fill up from the same discharge ports. A buddy who worked there said that some of the "top tier" suppliers would put a Kool-aid size packet in the tank before filling. I saw a program on T.V. regarding the subject of "top tier" gas and they tested several samples. All the samples met the federal mandated specs. for the grade of gas they represented and some of the "top tier" gas samples had an additive that was less than 1 part per billion and according to the tests performed, were completely useless. I run Costco and ARCO gas in everything I own, including my C-5 that NEVER had a fuel gauge issue.
To the O.P. - a piece of rubber designed 50 years ago and submerged in gas for the same period of time failed - DUH. WTF would you expect?