Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

[John D.]

Not going to get into a long discussion about this but here is a new one for you.

Gas tank sending unit in a 63 has a rubber biscuit in it. Customer complains the ethanol is eating up the biscuit. It's starting to break up and the pieces are going in the FI unit.

[Dan H.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

John, how old is the seal? Have him replace it, then put a few ounces of ATF in the gas tank from time to time.

[Bruce B.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Dan,
What does the ATF do?
I use 1 pint of ATF in every 4 gallons of gas in my John Deere tractor, it keeps the valves from carboning up.

[Dan H.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Bruce, the SACC Club out here had a GM Engineer speak at a meeting and put it there news letter about ATF keeping the rubber parts soft, cleaning the fuel system etc. I use it and Marvel Mystery Oil, all hoses and FI unit still in great shape after 18K miles, can't hurt.
Dan

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

That's the same question I would ask first, too? Every 30 to 50 year old organic part that wears out in the fuel system is automatically blamed on ethanol.

I'm organic and older than any of our cars and a few things are showing signs of wearing out. It must be the ethanol.

Duke

[Dan D.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Sounds like you have been drinking too much!!! (I have heard many reasons to stop drinking, but this is a new one)!!!

-Dan-

[Dick W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Hmmmm. If it not the ethanol I wonder why I have had to replace the fuel lines on every piece of power equipment that I own?? Oops! Almost every one, I have a Stihl saw that is not a year old yet.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Sounds like you have been drinking too much!!! (I have heard many reasons to stop drinking, but this is a new one)!!!

-Dan-

That's what my doctor tells me, so I have to remind him that I have the blood chemistry of a 30-year old, and I don't want my body to outlive my brain.

Back around 1980 a product called "gasohol" was introduced in some parts of the country. It contained 10 percent ethanol. About this time industry upgraded elastomeric materials, and most if not all OEMs stated that gasohol was okay for use in their new cars.

I can't say what various other manufacturers of gasoline powered equipment did, but as time passed the new elastomeric materials replaced all the older compounds.

Duke

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

One of my other hobbies is brewing beer. There's great similarity between this and the early stages of producing ethanol for eventual blending into gasoline. In honour of the ongoing confusion the subject causes on this and other discussion boards, I think I'll call my next batch 'FIart's Smoke and Mirror E5 special'.

[Dan D.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Last month I bought a new mini-tiller - one of those 9" tilling width ones. It has a small 4-stroke OHV engine (1.6 cubic inch). The instructions state in several places not to use ethanol blended fuel in excess of 10%. In one place - and I will quote, it says "WARNING: DO NOT USE E85 FUEL IN THIS UNIT. It has been proven that fuel containing greater than 10% ethanol will likely damage this engine and void the warranty".

In another place it says "Today's fuels are often a blend of gasoline and oxygenates such as ethanol, methanol, or MTBE (ether). Alcohol-blended fuel absorbs water. As little as 1% water in the fuel can make fuel and oil separate or form acids when stored. Use fresh fuel (less than 30 days old) when using alcohol-blended fuel".

This tells me E85 is much worse that E10, and it may impact our engines if E85 comes into being. I also think that one reason they are emphasizing this is the fact that these engines generally set for long periods of time - like our cars do. So the worst may be yet to come. Just thought I would throw this out. -Dan-

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Dan-

E85 is 85% ethanol and has been readily available for years for 'flex fuel' equipped vehicles. No conventional engine will run very well on it without major adjustments or modifications. Your tiller manufacturer may as well have stated other obvious bits of info like 'don't use naphtha or diesel fuel'.

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

In another place it says "Today's fuels are often a blend of gasoline and oxygenates such as ethanol, methanol, or MTBE (ether). Alcohol-blended fuel absorbs water. As little as 1% water in the fuel can make fuel and oil separate or form acids when stored. Use fresh fuel (less than 30 days old) when using alcohol-blended fuel".

-Dan-

I don't think this statement is true. Straight gasoline has little affinity for water and will hold only a fraction of a percent in solution before it drops out. Ethanol is a co-solvent that allows more water to be absorbed into the solution, and ten percent ethanol will allow several percent dissolved water before the ethanol-water mixture begins to drop out.

Of course, a real critical issue is how much dissolved water is in the fuel you buy at the local stop and rob. Care in handling is critical. Ethonol cannot be transported by pipeline because of it's affinity for water, so it's shipped via rail tank car to blenders and "splashed" into the tanker truck that delivers fuel to the retailer.

Research I have read claims that dissolved water will not cause any damage - like corrosion - but can produce damage or render the engine inoperable if enough water gets absorbed to cause ethanol-water drop out. Further, the research claims that water vapor absorbed from the atmosphere is not sufficient to cause drop out, but that probably assumes that the fuel supply is regularly refreshed, which continuously purges dissolved water. For a car that sits outside, exposed to condensing humidity, and seldom used it's probably a different story, but that's not the case (I hope) for our vintage Corvettes.

Fuel systems exposed to liquid water are in jeopardy, and that may be a partial reason that boat owners report problems.

If you have gasoline powered equipment that is not used during the winter, my recommendation is to drain the fuel system and hose down the inside of the fuel tank with WD-40 in the fall. Then put fresh fuel in the tank to fire it up in the spring.

Nowadays there are so many "warnings" and "cautions" plastered all over, it's a joke. Try reading a modern car owner's manual. They're so hacked up with this nonsense they're barely readable for relevent and useful information.

Due to the federal mandate to use oxgenates from "renewable" resources, ethanol is now used 99.99 percent of the time. MTBE was banned due to potential water supply contamination (so their warning label is about ten years out of date), methanol is very corrosive and not used in any commercial gasoline, and none of the others that are economically feasible come from "renewable" resources, so it's now pretty much ethanol 100 percent of the time.

Duke

[Dick W.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

I don't think this statement is true. Straight gasoline has little affinity for water and will hold only a fraction of a percent in solution before it drops out. Ethanol is a co-solvent that allows more water to be absorbed into the solution, and ten percent ethanol will allow several percent dissolved water before the ethanol-water mixture begins to drop out.

Research I have read claims that dissolved water will not cause any damage - like corrosion - but will if enough water gets absorbed to cause ethanol-water drop out. Further, the research claims that water vapor absorbed from the atmosphere is not sufficient to cause drop out, but that probably assumes that the fuel supply is regularly refreshed, which continuously purgeds dissolved water. For a car that sits outside, exposed to condensing humidity, it's probably a different story, but that's not the case (I hope) for our vintage Corvettes.

Fuel systems exposed to liquid water are in jeopardy, and that may be a partial reason that boat owners report problems.

If you have gasoline powered equipment that is not used during the winter, my recommendation is to drain the fuel system and hose down the inside of the fuel tank with WD-40 until you put fresh fuel in the tank to fire it up in the spring.

Nowadays there are so many "warnings" and "cautions" plastered all over, it's a joke. Try reading a modern car owner's manual. They're so hacked up with this nonsense they're barely readable for relevent and useful information.

Duke

I saw the results of "Phase Separation" in a 10,000 gallon premium tank. They pumped over 5,500 gallons out to be send to a disposal facility. Google Phase Separation.

[John N.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

That's the same question I would ask first, too? Every 30 to 50 year old organic part that wears out in the fuel system is automatically blamed on ethanol.

I'm organic and older than any of our cars and a few things are showing signs of wearing out. It must be the ethanol.

Duke

Willie Nelson claims that he has outlived at least one part of his body.

[Philip P.]

Re: Ethanol and gas tank sending unit

Dick.... that is a very interesting point, I too have many "soggy" fuel lines on power equipment, cannot be the type of fuel according to some, so not sure what is causing it.