Bloomington Gold Changes..

[William L.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Well the more I have thought about this the more I am considering taking my 67 back to B/G this year. It would be kinda cool to have one of the first 67/435's,with the "appears OEM" box checked off? I'll have to think about it. After all just because you apply doesn't mean you will get in this year!

[Greg G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Is hairspray on glossy doorjambs good enough to pass up there or does it have to be the real thing?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Is hairspray on glossy doorjambs good enough to pass up there or does it have to be the real thing?

Totally different judging system and scoring.
I'd recommend contacting them for score sheets for your car.

[Edward S.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

I can remember going thru the BG judging on my way to Triple Crown ( I know differant people running it now ) broke my butt going over everything - got there and the longest time spent judging a section was 23 minutes. Never wanted to break down the cost of everything versus total time spent on judging. Now from what I can see we would be going to a judging system with more columns then a menu in a Chinese restaurant and for what? I don't think much would change - a certain number of people will always see if they can beat the system. The most number of people going
have not owned their car since new, very hard to know how to list the car - could be the easest way to go rather then make a mistake and get slammed or plan to go second year as a "now I know car" and get my gold. If a judged BG car is listed as a original gold winner I would think if sold might require a higher selling price which would then open up the door for people trying to beat the system. I agree that this change has got alot to do with what went on at BG last year. If I were just starting out taking a car through judging I would strive to do my best in winning a Duntov and then quit.
That is what I did with my car - got the Duntov first and then went on to BG and Triple Crown. Having done all that I would say I think nothing holds a candle to winning a Duntov IMHO.

[Paul J.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Twice in this thread there have been references to what happened at BG last year. What happened last year?

[Al R.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Inquiring minds want to know! For those of us unable to attend, what did happen?

[Ken J.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Inquiring mind #2. I would like to know also. I had a questionable experience with my 56 Bowtie car at B/G last year also. I Would like to know if I have much company.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Ken Joseph

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

I think it's an interesting concept. The folks that know they have the real thing under the hood will be happy to allow an expert to give it his stamp of approval.

Ok but what if the EXPERT( I would love to know who he/she is because even Al Grenning will tell you that only if it is not typical of other stamps from around that SN.) said that your car is a restamp what then. I would also like to know what is the infactuation about original motors any more than original paint.interior,ETC. It is nice to have or see a unrestored Corvette but there are awards for unrestored cars. I have two & i will tell you that original paint/ interior Corvettes are harder to find than ORIGINAL MOTOR Corvettes. I have had over 300 since 1978 & I can count on one hand the # of original paint/interior Corvettes pre 1970. The people that owne BG are auction business/car sales & want to make a buck . When Dave & Shirley started & helped make this hobby not car sales men.
KEN

[Greg G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Obviously we need improved methods and technique which would still be practical to implement during an inspection but careful examination of the pad surface by a trained eye should reveal a lot of information. These blocks were literally pushed through a machine the size of a bus which cut all the surfaces at once (actually two steps with pan rails first). This involved huge block type tool holders with hundreds of carbide cutting tool bits mounted which left a distinct pattern in the cut surface with respect to folded and cut metal. There are no reasonable cost tools available to an automotive machine shop which would accurately duplicate this kind of surface under magnification. It might take an experienced metalurgist to interpret the image but it should still be a fairly straightforward examination for an experienced individual. None of the tricks and treatments out there currently being tried and recommended should pass scrutiny under examination by a trained eye with a background in metalurgy. Also, blocks which have been cut and restamped will measure a change in c/shaft centerline to the deck surface. With availability of lasers perhaps we could divise an inexpensive non-invasive method to measure this dimension. The best proof is probably documentation which can be verified.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Obviously we need improved methods and technique which would still be practical to implement during an inspection but careful examination of the pad surface by a trained eye should reveal a lot of information. These blocks were literally pushed through a machine the size of a bus which cut all the surfaces at once (actually two steps with pan rails first). This involved huge block type tool holders with hundreds of carbide cutting tool bits mounted which left a distinct pattern in the cut surface with respect to folded and cut metal. There are no reasonable cost tools available to an automotive machine shop which would accurately duplicate this kind of surface under magnification. It might take an experienced metalurgist to interpret the image but it should still be a fairly straightforward examination for an experienced individual. None of the tricks and treatments out there currently being tried and recommended should pass scrutiny under examination by a trained eye with a background in metalurgy. Also, blocks which have been cut and restamped will measure a change in c/shaft centerline to the deck surface. With availability of lasers perhaps we could divise an inexpensive non-invasive method to measure this dimension. The best proof is probably documentation which can be verified.

I am not trying to beat this to death but I am afraid that many original stamped motots will be disqualified because some so called expert didn't like it or it was not restored by the right people. I agree that if you had a pristen fresh block to look at you could tell but what about 40,50 year old cast iron that has been heated & cooled thousand's of times,set in the corner of sheds or worse outside. pads would be rusty & surface changed by oil, paint, sanding ETC. You might not beleave it but I will bet some of the tracings,pictures that were taken at BG & are in there holy Grail book are restamps. Al Grenning said that there is no sure way to tell for sure & I'm with him. I think NCRS would be amiss to go down the road of BG. I beleave the appeares factory correct & would probabky stop a lot of law suits. It would be hell to pay if a engine was judged nonoriginal & it could be proven otherwise. Not sure how you would do that but then again I don't beleave you can prove that a typical stamp is not.
KEN

[Louis T.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

I’m curious as to whether anyone noticed the following while reading the materials on the Bloomington Gold website.

From the OWNER DECLARATION & CERTIFICATION:

“I understand that if it is determined before, during, or after Certification that the previous statements are found untrue (and that I indeed did/or do have knowledge, influence, or indication that engine size, horsepower, suffix codes, or tags are DIFFERENT than those with which this vehicle was manufactured) it will be considered misrepresentation against Bloomington Gold, its inspectors, and the Corvette community at large.
(NOTE: Bloomington Gold does NOT consider it misrepresentation to simply replace an original block with another one of the same size/hp and number it accordingly.)

I understand that in such case that attempted misrepresentation by me or my restorer is discovered, Bloomington Gold will seek proper remedies through various authorities including the States Attorney and DMV of the offender’s home State.”

Now I’m all for weeding out forgers/counterfeiters from the hobby, but putting myself in the shoes of the unsuspecting car owner who’s new to the hobby and just paid big bucks for a car represented as an original motor and configured car (or one he bought years ago and always assumed to be original), this seems like an awful lot of potential legal trouble to get into just trying to earn a car award.

From the OWNER DECLARATION & CERTIFICATION:

“I understand that vehicles, owners, and/or restorers associated with such a case of misrepresentation will be permanently prohibited from any/all Bloomington Gold events and those records will remain the property of Bloomington Gold.”

From THE STANDARDS:

“NOTES
2. In order to protect the uniqueness of OEM configurations and prevent the continued dilution of OEM credibility and legitimacy, neither Bloomington Gold nor its inspectors will provide or explain any proprietary data or details of any deviations. Thank you for understanding.”

So not only does the car owner risk having his car (and as a result, himself) branded as fakes, he’s not even entitled to an explanation as to why. That’s certainly one way to eliminate arguments …

Another reason I am proud and appreciative to be a member of the NCRS.

Save the wave!

Louis

[Greg G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Be interesting to look further into altered serial numbers, serial number restoration and forensic serial number recovery. Labs do it with firearms all the time, recover serial numbers that have been ground off. Open up a can of worms I guess finding someone else's serial number on your pad. Can you legally possess something with altered serial numbers?

[Michael G.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

The wording of those Bloomington Gold disclaimers is ominous.

Given the extremely subjective nature of the car inspections that might be done by B/G (and their possibly erroneous result), I think only a fool would certify that any car had any particular engine size, horsepower, suffix codes, or tags, unless they could provide bullet-proof documentation of those claims. I don't believe even an original owner could do this, (he might be lying) unless he had day-one, Chevrolet-verified, photos of the car, or certification from the original selling dealer that the car is what its claimed to be. Even that might not hold up in court.

Who'd take that risk for a lousy award?

[Bill S.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

That language in post #41 may have been added as a way to insulate Bloomington Gold from lawsuits related to misrepresentation when the ad or current owner uses the term "Bloomington Gold Certified" as a statement relating to the authenticity or originality of the vehicle.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Bloomington Gold Changes..

Be interesting to look further into altered serial numbers, serial number restoration and forensic serial number recovery. Labs do it with firearms all the time, recover serial numbers that have been ground off. Open up a can of worms I guess finding someone else's serial number on your pad. Can you legally possess something with altered serial numbers?

GREG
You have been watching too many CSI or all of those other hi tec cop shows on TV. I have been in the pattern,foundry,machining business since 1962. Cast iron is a hard metal & is not malleable like steel,aluminum. It doesn't displace material very well. Try stamping CI it's very hard to make much of a mark so it will not leave a footprint also not all blocks were stamped so those would have no #'s.
KEN