1960 Block

[Al E.]

Re: 1960 Block

Short answer for 1959......NO

Thanks Dick! just dont want to give this guy money for my own block that came out of my own car and its not the one. Small town eng guy rebuilt engs back in the day had a block exchange business. Bring us yours we will give you ours, back then all people wanted was good new eng.

Jusyt find it strange for this car to have a 5-6 months before the car ..

[Dick W.]

Re: 1960 Block

Stranger things have happened. It was not first in, first out at STL. It is possible that it got shoved to the back and took some time to get pulled. I would scrutinize the pad and characters very carefully.

I restored a 1964 FI car a few years ago. Had all the right indicators for a real fuelie. Bought a restoration engine and put in the car. About 10 years later one of his friends showed him an ad in a local trader paper for a FI engine. Turns out it was his original engine.

[Dick W.]

Re: 1960 Block

Stranger things have happened. It was not first in, first out at STL. It is possible that it got shoved to the back and took some time to get pulled. I would scrutinize the pad and characters very carefully.

I restored a 1964 FI car a few years ago. Had all the right indicators for a real fuelie. Bought a restoration engine and put in the car. About 10 years later one of his friends showed him an ad in a local trader paper for a FI engine. Turns out it was his original engine.

[Philip P.]

Re: 1960 Block

I do not know if I would say "No" to the stamping of the block that early, anything is possible, In Nolan Adams book it states the VIN on the engine requirement was not instituted until 5-16-60 (AIM) and there have been examples that it happened long before that.
The block cast is July would be suspect as Jim mentioned, My car for example all the casting are withing a few weeks of the assembly date, ie block, heads, manifolds etc.
Phil

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Block

So now the question is.. did blocks for cars built in Nov 59 have the VIN stamped on them.

Short answer for 1959......NO

Dick, if your "short" answer is referring to 1959 model year cars, you are correct. If you are referring to model year 1960 cars built in 1959, you are very wrong. The 1960 built 11-16-1959 (149 cars after the OP's car) did indeed have the VIN stamped in the pad.

[Al E.]

Re: 1960 Block

Carp... now I am confused... My car VIN is 101173.. is that not the first week in Nov 1959, if so then My block should not have the VIN on it.

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Block

Carp... now I am confused... My car VIN is 101173.. is that not the first week in Nov 1959, if so then My block should not have the VIN on it.

Okay, one more time. The VIN stamping started sometime between car # 1135 and car #1322. I've been researching this specific topic for over 30 years and that's what I've narrowed it down to. Yours may or may not have been stamped with the VIN. That is why I want to see your stamp pad (without paint) to see if the assembly stamp is typical. If it is your original motor and the stamp looks good, we can assume that the VIN stamping started between your car and #1322. That July date still has me concerned. Typically the casting date and assembly date are only 2 days to 2 weeks apart and then installed in a car within 2 months. Like Dick said "anything is possible" but it wouldn't be typical.

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Block

Okay, one more time. The VIN stamping started sometime between car # 1135 and car #1322. I've been researching this specific topic for over 30 years and that's what I've narrowed it down to. Yours may or may not have been stamped with the VIN. That is why I want to see your stamp pad (without paint) to see if the assembly stamp is typical. If it is your original motor and the stamp looks good, we can assume that the VIN stamping started between your car and #1322. That July date still has me concerned. Typically the casting date and assembly date are only 2 days to 2 weeks apart and then installed in a car within 2 months. Like Dick said "anything is possible" but it wouldn't be typical.

Well, Mr Durham has spent "over 30 years" on this topic and apparently has not run into the fact of the 1959 STEEL STRIKE. Flint engine production stops on Oct. 14 and resumes on November 30, 1959. St Louis Corvette production STOPPED on November 10 and resumed on either Dec 10 or Dec 14(a Monday). And then we get, from the 1960 Chevrolet Product Data Book, the "Technical Information" report dated 3/23/60 that states:

"With RESUMPTION OF PRODUCTION after the steel strike, the CORVETTE assembly
plant BEGAN stamping the last six digits of the vehicle SERIAL NUMBER on the engine date boss."

A Corvette built before November 10 will have a Flint motor assembled BEFORE October 14 and it will
NOT have a VIN stamping.

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Block

Thanks for the info. Loren but something doesn't quite add up or maybe I'm confused (not a rare incident).
Correct me if I'm wrong but what I get from the above info. is that the last car built before the strike on Nov. 10th would be the last one without the VIN stamp and the first one built when they came back to work on Dec. 14th would be the first one to have the VIN stamp. Correct?

The Judging guide states the last car built in Nov. 59 was #1454 so should we assume that #1455 was the first one with the VIN stamp?. How do you explain that car #1322 has the VIN stamp? It's engine assembly stamp is 10-14. Maybe the JG is wrong on that Nov. number. It's wrong stating that the VIN stamping started with approx. car #1800.

You're correct that I wasn't aware of the strike but that really has no effect on what I'm trying to do as that is to determine the exact car that the stamping began. So far, I've got it down to between #1135 & #1322.

[Donald H.]

Re: 1960 Block

Jim Durham,

Mine is the 60 vin 1322. I sent you pictures a year or so ago. But now I am not sure that the vin stamp is original, I plan to have the car judged, but since I got the engine back from the machine shop and the pad was really clean, I'm not sure. Since I am a relative newbie. I now understand that the VIN was not a ganged stamp and mine sure looks pretty even. That is why I would put a big question mark on your records for earliest VIN. However when I look in Nolan Adams book, there is a clear picture of a pad on pad 256, and that one also looks pretty even to me. So I am confused to say the least. I guess I'll have to wait and see how my pad judges.

Per my VIN and the Corvette Calendar, my car was assembled on November 16, 1959. My engine casting date is J 1 9, which is October 1, 59, so it must be one of the engines cast before the strike. The engine assembly date stamped on the pad is FI0I4CU, or assembly of October 14th. Which is the last day of production before the strike Loren cites above.

Don

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Block

Hi Don, I know it's sometimes hard to tell from pictures but after cleaning yours up in Photoshop and comparing it to pics. of other "freehanded" stamps , yours looks very good to me. It has the correct broach marks, the correct character size and font and that motor looked like it hadn't been touched in many years/decades. As far as being an even stamp, I've got several pictures of known originals close to your build date that look very similar, as if someone actually cared how they looked. I have others that look like they were stamped by a drunk monkey.

According to Loren's post, your car couldn't have been built 11-16. It was either before 11-10 or after 12-14. Since yours has what I believe is an original VIN stamp and if Loren's info. is correct, it must have been after 12-14 but that would contradict the info. in many printed sources.

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Block

Jim, first let's state that you are in chase of the "impossible dream" - you will NOT find a "cutoff" because motors were not used on a "first-in/first-out" basis. We also have no idea of the # of motors in St Louis AVAILABLE when the plant shut down POSSIBLY FOR OTHER STEEL SHORTAGES. You know when Flint was NOT assembling motors - anything purporting to be that during the Flint strike is ?????
You also know that AFTER PRODUCTION RESUMED AT ST LOUIS, ST LOUIS BEGAN SERIALIZING BLOCKS AND NOT BEFORE......and ONLY for Corvettes (the BIG "Warranty Repair" problem car)....
To illustrate - at the National in Mpls-St Paul (yr?), I was asked to look at a car that had 3 digits of the VIN on the left side of the assembly stamp and 3 digits on the right side (somewhere in the 3K VIN range (?) as I recall) and individually
stamped. I called it "Real" - clearly the stamper at Flint had NOT been told NOT to "center" the assembly stamp. I don't
know what the final call was.....opinions are opinions.......

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Block

Jim, first let's state that you are in chase of the "impossible dream" - you will NOT find a "cutoff" because motors were not used on a "first-in/first-out" basis. We also have no idea of the # of motors in St Louis AVAILABLE when the plant shut down POSSIBLY FOR OTHER STEEL SHORTAGES. You know when Flint was NOT assembling motors - anything purporting to be that during the Flint strike is ?????
You also know that AFTER PRODUCTION RESUMED AT ST LOUIS, ST LOUIS BEGAN SERIALIZING BLOCKS AND NOT BEFORE......and ONLY for Corvettes (the BIG "Warranty Repair" problem car)....
To illustrate - at the National in Mpls-St Paul (yr?), I was asked to look at a car that had 3 digits of the VIN on the left side of the assembly stamp and 3 digits on the right side (somewhere in the 3K VIN range (?) as I recall) and individually
stamped. I called it "Real" - clearly the stamper at Flint had NOT been told NOT to "center" the assembly stamp. I don't
know what the final call was.....opinions are opinions.......

What happened in Flint has no bearing on what was stamped at St. Louis. I'm not looking for a cut-off in motors as you say. IF the first car built after production resumed in Dec. was also the first one stamped with the VIN, that is the car number I'm looking for regardless of its meaningless Flint assembly stamp.

I would love to see a pic. of the "3 on one side & 3 on the other" of the assembly stamp. I have hundreds of stamps on record and the Flint assembly stamp is always on the far right of the pad with no room for anything to be added. I have many 1960 stamps in the 3000 range and they are all the typical individually stamped numbers all to the left of the assembly stamp.

[Loren L.]

Re: 1960 Block

Flint starts building motors again on Nov 30; St Louis starts production again on either December 10th or the 14th - how many motors can Flint build in two weeks? Motors shipped to St Louis do not get used on FIFO; an indefinite recital of time for stamping VINs is provided; your owner of #1322 says that his assembly is 10/14, the date of shutdown; his stamping is a gang stamping that does not seem to occur until 5000+....What is it that you want? Check with Roy Sinor -MAYBE the records are there for the '60 in question and he will provide it...doubtfully.
I certainly apologize for letting my observations get in the way of your facts.

[Jim D.]

Re: 1960 Block

Flint starts building motors again on Nov 30; St Louis starts production again on either December 10th or the 14th - how many motors can Flint build in two weeks? Motors shipped to St Louis do not get used on FIFO; an indefinite recital of time for stamping VINs is provided; your owner of #1322 says that his assembly is 10/14, the date of shutdown; his stamping is a gang stamping that does not seem to occur until 5000+....What is it that you want? Check with Roy Sinor -MAYBE the records are there for the '60 in question and he will provide it...doubtfully.
I certainly apologize for letting my observations get in the way of your facts.

Flint built 59 million V-8's in 41 years so a 2 week average would be a little over 55,000.

Actually, his VIN is NOT gang stamped. It's merely in a decent row as most of them were. The last "freehand" stamp that I've found is #5874.

If Roy has the info., why not put it in the JG so all will have ACCURATE info. instead of what's in there now?

I don't mind hearing your "observations", I just prefer actual FACTS and that's what I've been trying to document.