My stamp pad

[Christopher A.]

Re: My stamp pad

Sorry, i meant a full deduction on just the pad portion. The rest of the engine scored fine as far as dates and numbers. I just got home and i will take snap a few shots with my camera and upload them soon. I had several photos, but now all i can find is the actual prints and not the ones stored on my computer.
Thanks for the replies. Im not bashing anyone and i am not pissed off, so dont take my comments in the wrong way. I just think its kind of odd to not judge a stamp pad and characters more on it looking original than fresh and new, but that is my opinion and it doesnt count for squat.

[Patrick H.]

Re: My stamp pad

Chris,
Please define a "full deduction."

The entire engine is worth 350 points -- If your casting number was not what the factory installed your car lost 350 points, but it was not because of your stamp pad. OH, and 350 points is a "full deduction" to many people.

The date code is next and if that is not TFP one then loses 175 points. This is not a full deduction since one has received 175 points for the correct casting.

Now to the stamp pad.
The engine assembly plant stamp and the vehicle VIN derivative each are assigned 25 points, and the pad surface is assigned 38 points. Each of those last three are judged separately but each is an all or nothing assessment. That is they each get all their points or none of their points. One can get 25 points for each of the stampings and all or nothing of the 38 for the pad surface.

So pray tell us what was your "full deduction?" I will make this multiple guess (as I tell my students)

A) 350 points
B) 175 points
C) 25 points engine assembly
D) 25 points VIN derivative
E) 38) points pad surface

Me thinks perhaps this process was not well explained to you, or you did not absorb the explanation.

If I can throw in my 2 cents...

At a Regional early this year I had a chance to discuss pad surface a bit with some Mech judges more knowledgeable than I as well as Roy. The intent of the pad suface finish points is more to deduct for "post Flint" or "post Tonawanda" finish alterations and not to deduct for original smooth pads, worn pads, etc. In other words, if it looks like the pad hasn't been touched since the car was made then don't deduct.

I hope this helps.

Patrick

[Michael W.]

Re: My stamp pad

I just think its kind of odd to not judge a stamp pad and characters more on it looking original than fresh and new, but that is my opinion and it doesnt count for squat.

You've still not clarified exactly what was a full deduct

• VIN derivative
• Engine Machine code
• Pad surface

are judged separately and without any bearing on the others. Was it all three? Terry clarified what each feature is worth in terms of points.

If it was just the pad surface (38 points), the corrosion can be removed as mentioned way up above.

A stamp pad doesn't 'look original' if it's heavily corroded and illegible. Why should it be exempted from a 'condition' deduct- no other component is.

[Tony S.]

Re: My stamp pad

"Pitting and aged" is not a sufficiently descriptive reason to give a full 88 point deduction for a pad (IMHO). I've learned alot from Mike Murray, and one thing that I've learned is that we must follow CDCIF. If you can't sufficiently articulate a deduction based on that method, no deduction should be taken.

Just my two cents.
Tony

[Don H.]

Re: My stamp pad

Neither the stamp pad, nor any other aspect of the cylinder case is judged as to condition. The judging guide dictates that the pad be free of excessive rust and dirt to the extent that the pad surface can be judged for machine marks. There is to be a full deduct for pad surface if the pad is not "reasonably" clean of paint, rust, dirt, etc. If the assembly date stamp and VIN derivative stamp were clear and fully legible as the OP says, there should have been no deduct for those.

[George W.]

Re: My stamp pad

Chris,
If your car was judged at an NCRS meet (you don't say that and I have learned it is dangerous to assUme anything) it is too late.

The NCRS appeals process has to be done at the judging site, and on the judging field. All the parties (owner, judges, Team Leader, Meet Judging Chairman and in some cases the National Judging Chairman) must be present, and once the meet is over we can not recreate that event. To do so would be akin to putting toothpaste back into the tube.

The details of the appeals process are spelled out in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual. The most recent edition is the 8th, and there is an addendum to that edition that is dated July 2011 (Rev 4.0). The addendum does not deal with the appeals process, but I mention it so that those reading this can be sure they have the most up to date and complete version.

Terry has it correct; get ready for the next judge meet...

[Michael F.]

Re: My stamp pad

thanks Michael Ward, for some reason I didn't think block casting was checked, my bad as they say, thanks for setting me straight

[Patrick H.]

Re: My stamp pad

A stamp pad doesn't 'look original' if it's heavily corroded and illegible. Why should it be exempted from a 'condition' deduct- no other component is.

Mike -

Take a look at the score sheets.
No condition points.

https://www.ncrs.org/sinor/68-72%20Score%20Sheets/68-72%20Mchncl.pdf

[Michael W.]

Re: My stamp pad

Mike -

Take a look at the score sheets.
No condition points.

https://www.ncrs.org/sinor/68-72%20S...2%20Mchncl.pdf

Yes, I was thinking in the context of being able to properly evaluate the 'stamp pad surface finish'. Perhaps condition as we typically use the word in judging is not the best choice of word, but if corrosion is obscuring what's underneath it's impossible to evaluate the 'originality'.

[Christopher A.]

Re: My stamp pad

The Sheets are in the car currently and i am about to shut down for the evening. I will look again tomorrow. I know there was a full deduct for the pad surface. I still have to argue that any pad that is 40-50 years old is not going to look new unless it is a restamp, but....perhaps you all know someway to freshen up the condition of the metal without jepopradizing any of the originality.

Here are two pictures that i just took. Ill be honest, i did not realize how much paint was in the letters and numbers until i enhanced the pictures on my computer.

I appreciate all of the help!!! My major concern was that the previous judging was going to have lasting repercussions, but if that is not the case, then I'm not worried and it is time to move forward and make the pad look as presentable as possible for the next judging.

Thanks again for all of the replies!

[Timothy B.]

Re: My stamp pad

Is the IM a 390 hp engine?

I would probably be considered a bad judge but I don't see anything wrong with this engine pad.

[Tom H.]

Re: My stamp pad

I guess I expected much worse.

[Joe R.]

Re: My stamp pad

Is the IM a 390 hp engine?

Tim,

According to this web page, it's 390 horse, four speed and A.I.R.

http://www.corvette.net/tech-5.htm

Joe

[Rick A.]

Re: My stamp pad

I am at a TOTAL LOSS as to why a full deduction of the stamp pad was taken!? Again, we were NOT the judges on that given day, and a FULL EXPLANATION was required by the TEAM LEADER for that judging team. I really would like to know what their rationale was and how it was written up on the score sheet.

As far as cleaning the pad, take some WD40 or something similar and continue to wipe/clean the pad - whatever you do, DO NOT use anything abrasive to clean the pad.

[Christopher A.]

Re: My stamp pad

Thanks for the replies, they have certainly made me feel better about the stamp pad.

Yes, the IM code is for a 427/390hp engine with the Air Injection Reactor option.

Thanks again!

Already preparing for Kissimee!