Survivor vs Fully Restored?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Terry,

Unfortunately I do not know, the new system is not as user friendly and sortable as the old system was, now it requires a request for a report to be built and they have a back log of that type stuff. Before the switch over, there were 16 my guess would be there are now 20.

Hmm.
You make me want to try for #21....

[Terry M.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Hmm.
You make me want to try for #21....

Timing is everything.

[Paul J.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I looked at a 68 BB Bloomington Gold Survivor this afternoon. It was fairly dark in the garage but I could see that the paint was very rough, and under the hood looked pretty bad.

Sorry guys, but that car needs a frame-off restoration.

I understand that some people like to have an all original car, but for that kind of money I want a car that looks good. Put the all original cars in museums to preserve them if you wish, but I want to drive something that looks great. Anyone who drives a survivor is fooling themselves if they think that the car will not eventually need restoration.

[Dave S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Hmm.
You make me want to try for #21....

Patrick,
I can help............

[Alan S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Hi,
Some owners want the pleasure, tears, and bloodshed, of doing a restoration of a car they care about, themselves. I guess for them the choice would be 'restored'.
I don't think the Convention would be as great as it is without both Bowtie and Top Flight cars to enjoy.
Regards,
Alan

[Roy S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Patrick,
I can help............

I think this may be considered as advertising parts for sale, or is it the knowledge on proper preparation for the attempt you are offering since changing parts on a Bowtie is a no-no, several of us know you have or do own A fair number of the 20.

[Roy S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Hi,
Some owners want the pleasure, tears, and bloodshed, of doing a restoration of a car they care about, themselves. I guess for them the choice would be 'restored'.
I don't think the Convention would be as great as it is without both Bowtie and Top Flight cars to enjoy.
Regards,
Alan

Oh so true, there is a place for both.

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Thanks to everyone for this most helpful information… what a great group of opinions! Some of you may remember, I purchased a triple crown ’65 396 Roadster last year and posted a few questions. The problem with that car was… it was just too nice to enjoy. The lacquer paint was almost flawless and I was afraid to ruin it by driving it a lot. I sold it and have been searching for something very original, but preferably not a body-off restored car.

I am looking at a low mileage (25k +-) ’66 Coupe 427/450 with quite a bit of documentation including original dealer order sheet, shipping manifest, real Protecto-Plate and warranty book, factory notation of the 450 HP rating, complete owner / warranty / mileage documentation and many survivor type awards from Bloomington, NCRS and other events with judges score cards, and tons of other stuff documenting it as an original car. I think there is a Bloomington Gold Survivor Award with 95 out of 100 points… with several personal notes on the quality of the car’s condition. Not sure what each of the 5-6 NCRS awards are for, although I do not think any is the Bowtie Award. Best of all, all docs, awards, etc. are originals, not copies.

The Coupe has approximately 70% original paint and all original quarter panels (I think). There have been a few touch-ups done very well with lacquer paint including light cosmetic repairs of a few door dings, stress cracks, etc. I believe it is a no-hit car. The fact I like about this car is it isn’t cosmetically flawless and I think I will be much more comfortable driving it a bunch.

I am not sure it is appropriate to discuss prices on this forum, but a problem I have is I have no idea what the value is for a car like the one I described above. If someone will be willing to email me directly, I will love to discuss the car and current values. If it is unacceptable to request this kind of help, I am very sorry.

Thank you to everyone who responded. It has been most enjoyable to read all of your opinions.

Chuck A

[Mark D.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I think this may be considered as advertising parts for sale, or is it the knowledge on proper preparation for the attempt you are offering since changing parts on a Bowtie is a no-no, several of us know you have or do own A fair number of the 20.

Dave,

Remember, you are protected by the 5th Amendment.

Mark Donnally, Esquire

[Gene M.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I like both restored and original cars. The original cars are generally bigger dollars than something in bad need of restoration. The needy cars are most often the restoration candidates. So from my point of view I enjoy the original cars other people own and show at NCRS events. But for me I just can't keep my hands off any cars I own. So an original car in my garage would not be original for very long.

My 67 silver coupe could have been a bowtie car when I first bought it. I didn't buy it to keep it the way it was. I wanted a car to work on. I did a complete restoration. Like I said I just have to work on them. Look and no touch is just not me. Different strokes for different folks.......

[John S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

you sold a car because it was too nice to drive. now you are looking at a car that has 25,000 miles. sounds like you won't keep this one long because you will not be able to drive it without adding miles!

[Floyd B.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Personally, it comes down to originality. I feel there is way too much emphasis placed on condition. A car that is in really rough shape and "in need of a restoration" to the unappreciative eye but has every original part that was installed at the factory is more valuable to me than the same car after a full resto. This eventually leads to the Ship of Theseus Paradox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

At what point does the car cease to be original?

[Ronald L.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Roy,

Could you please clarify for the membership how the 80 85% is defined in each category?

Let's take the body (paint) as an example.

Is this defined by a percentage calculation of actual surface area, by the number of un molested body panels or by some secret inside formula?

As a study topic - the blue 67 at NOVI that a bit of "obvious to some" repaint that on a panel basis cover two pieces of glass, or on a square foot basis covered 3? sq ft...was hearing the body class was at question if it was going to make 80%.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Timing is everything.

So is money.
The few parts I don't have (like exhaust) aren't inexpensive.

[Dave S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Dave,

Remember, you are protected by the 5th Amendment.

Mark Donnally, Esquire

I guess what I thought was a tongue in cheek comment was taken incorrectly. Both Patrick and I own Bowtie cars and it was a private joke. I guess this is a sensitive subject. Sorry to have created any confusion.