Survivor vs Fully Restored?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I guess what I thought was a tongue in cheek comment was taken incorrectly. Both Patrick and I own Bowtie cars and it was a private joke. I guess this is a sensitive subject. Sorry to have created any confusion.

and, Dave is the "king" of the 70-72 PV. Though the vast majority of my car operates as new I'd seek his input on that one for sure.

Patrick

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

you sold a car because it was too nice to drive. now you are looking at a car that has 25,000 miles. sounds like you won't keep this one long because you will not be able to drive it without adding miles!

I disagree, but very much appreciate you taking the time to offer your opinion. Not sure there is too much difference in 25,000 miles or 29,000 miles... still very low mileage for an original, documented car.

I paid more than I sold the triple crown car for... the high price was due to the quality of the body-off restoration and awards. I am not a flipper for the sake of profit but I didn't want to drive the car a lot as I realized it would probably lower the value of this particular car. Although I am not buying the car solely as an investment, I don't want to substantially loose money either. And, I do drive and enjoy the cars I have had very much.

Thanks again,
Chuck A

[Patrick H.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

you sold a car because it was too nice to drive. now you are looking at a car that has 25,000 miles. sounds like you won't keep this one long because you will not be able to drive it without adding miles!

I disagree, but very much appreciate you taking the time to offer your opinion. Not sure there is too much difference in 25,000 miles or 29,000 miles... still very low mileage for an original, documented car.

I paid more than I sold the triple crown car for... the high price was due to the quality of the body-off restoration and awards. I am not a flipper for the sake of profit but I didn't want to drive the car a lot as I realized it would probably lower the value of this particular car. Although I am not buying the car solely as an investment, I don't want to substantially loose money either. And, I do drive and enjoy the cars I have had very much.

Thanks again,
Chuck A

4000 miles doesn't take that long to add up. I think that Mark has a point if you want one that you can "drive." I put about 3000 miles on my 2008 per year.

I "drive" my 72 but it sure hasn't seen much daylight in the last 7 years. One trip a year to bring my son to school, and one trip this year to the Novi National. Prior to that I put on a few thousand driving it to NCRS meets for its awards. I suspect you'll find that the originality of a 25000 mile car makes you cringe to drive it as much as a restored car.

Oh, and mine has 61000 miles. Photos in link below.

Patrick

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?









But you know what the cream of the crop is A Bowtie that also received the Duntov then you have a 80-85 percent vehicle that is in good enough condition to receive the highest award offered on the flight field add paperwork and it gets no better than that.



Roy,

Thank you so much for this information on NCRS judging. I have one question for you (for now, at least ), can your car be judged in regional events and receive the above mentioned awards, or do these awards need to be judged at a national event?

Thanks again,
Chuck A

[Reba W.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Star/Bowtie judging is only done at the national convention every summer. However, the car does have to be judged at a regional meet in the preceeding year and receive a sign-off from the team leader for this type judging. We just did a very nice 1972 in Texas.

The percentages required for each section's judging are listed in the Judging Reference Manual, along with tips about cleaning and preparation.

[Roy S.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I guess what I thought was a tongue in cheek comment was taken incorrectly. Both Patrick and I own Bowtie cars and it was a private joke. I guess this is a sensitive subject. Sorry to have created any confusion.

Dave, My reply was also very tongue in cheek I thought, no issue on this end, I wish all were as consistent, astute and honest as you.

Roy,

Could you please clarify for the membership how the 80 85% is defined in each category?
Let's take the body (paint) as an example.
Is this defined by a percentage calculation of actual surface area, by the number of un molested body panels or by some secret inside formula?
As a study topic - the blue 67 at NOVI that a bit of "obvious to some" repaint that on a panel basis cover two pieces of glass, or on a square foot basis covered 3? sq ft...was hearing the body class was at question if it was going to make 80%.

Roy,
Thank you so much for this information on NCRS judging. I have one question for you (for now, at least ), can your car be judged in regional events and receive the above mentioned awards, or do these awards need to be judged at a national event?
Thanks again,
Chuck A

Chuck, all Star/Bowtie judging is conducted at the national events. Prior to that a Star/Bowtie sign off is required from a regional event again this is best explained in the judging reference manual.

[Joe R.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Chuck,

I would highly recommend getting a well seasoned NCRS member to look the car over for you. Can you get a copy of the GM docs? Run them through the NCRS documentation verification service. Can you post pictures of the car here? Be sure to get good shots of the VIN tag, trim tag and engine stamp pad.

Joe

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Chuck,

I would highly recommend getting a well seasoned NCRS member to look the car over for you. Can you get a copy of the GM docs? Run them through the NCRS documentation verification service. Can you post pictures of the car here? Be sure to get good shots of the VIN tag, trim tag and engine stamp pad.

Hi Joe,

Thank you for the advice. Here are the links for a few photos of the car:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Chuckanastos/66%20427%20Vette/exterior3.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Chuckanastos/66%20427%20Vette/exterior2.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Chuckanastos/66%20427%20Vette/exterior4.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Chuckanastos/66%20427%20Vette/exterior1.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Chuckanastos/66%20427%20Vette/interior4.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/Chuckanastos/66%20427%20Vette/interior3.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../interior2.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../interior1.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...te/engine1.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...Vette/tags.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...paperwork1.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...dowsticker.jpg

Thank you again for the help.

Chuck A

[Michael J.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I would agree with most of what is said here, I would also prefer an excellent condition original, but of course very few exist that are truly excellent condition after 40+ years unless it was stored in a bubble. Documentation to me is vital, otherwise it is just a used car. But the most important thing to me is being able to drive the car frequently and not worry about safety and function issues. This is where the originals usually fall far short of desirable. I was at a very fancy car show event where several very low mile C1 and C2 originals were present. They were trailered or 18 wheelered to the show, unloaded by hand and towed by golf carts into place. They didin't do the tours and rallies, and one owner told me his has not been started in years due to fear of discoloration of the manifolds and gas stains and tire issues. If this is what you want to do with your original cars, fine, but count me out of that.

[Mike E.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I was privileged to recieve the bowtie award on 2 62's at Novi this summer. #1--a 300hp almond/fawn 4speed car. #2--a maroon/black FI 4-speed car with 4.56 posi. I drive them both on a limited basis, and just keep hoping that nothing breaks when I do. I have a 61 driver that I drive a lot--and I hope nothing breaks when I do. I have a couple of other restored 62's as well. I'd much rather have an original car than a fully restored car, but have both.

[Richard M.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Chuck,
Just looked at your pictures, reminds me of my brothers 66' Coupe he purchased in 1970, 390hp, red,red vinyl int. add-on factory side pipes,
I was in high school he was in college. O' for the good old days!

[James W.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I prefer a well preserved driver/Bowtie/Survivor quality Corvette. I'd like to see how my '65 would do in the attached pictures. It was repainted back in 1977 and was bought with the center seat inserts coverd with houndstooth material (vinyl is still under the houndstooth material), and a dealer installed luggage rack. I've done some clean-up, radiator and hose replacement, etc under the hood, for driveability, maybe I'd be wasting my time. I haven't finished cleaning the underside of the car but since it was delivered to a dealer in Dallas, Tx. per confirmation through the NCRS shipping data report and spent it's first 12 years in the southwest the chassis is really clean. This a 58k mile car that I purchased from my sisters out of my parents trust after they passed.

Any thoughts on how it might do? I'm guessing maybe a single star at best for Bowtie and a Silver Cert for Survivor.

Thanks,

James West

[Ridge K.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

I prefer a well preserved driver/survivor quality Corvette. I'd like to see how my '65 would do in the attached pictures. It was repainted back in 1977 and was bought with the center seat inserts coverd with hounstooth material (vinyl is still under the houndstooth material), and a dealer installed luggage rack. I've done some clean-up, radiator and hose replacement, etc under the hood, fpr driveability, maybe I'd be wasting my time. I haven't finished cleaning the underside of the car but since it was delivered to a dealer in Dallas, Tx. and spent it's first 12 years in the southwest it's really clean. This a 58k mile car that I purchased from my sisters out of my parents trust after they passed.

Any thoughts on how it might do? I'm guessing a single star at best for Bow Tie and a Silver Cert for Survivor.

Thanks,

James West

Thanks for attaching the pics, James.

I had never seen a dealer-installed luggage rack on a C2 coupe before. Very interesting....

Ridge

[James W.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Thanks for attaching the pics, James.

I had never seen a dealer-installed luggage rack on a C2 coupe before. Very interesting....

Ridge

Ridge,

I just finished taking some datailed pictures and measurements of the luggage rack and have been collecting info for a hope to be published Restorer article. Myself and another NCRS member are teaming up to write about the differences and similarities between the convertible and coupe racks.


Regards,

James West

[Chuck A.]

Re: Survivor vs Fully Restored?

Chuck,

I would highly recommend getting a well seasoned NCRS member to look the car over for you. Can you get a copy of the GM docs? Run them through the NCRS documentation verification service. Can you post pictures of the car here? Be sure to get good shots of the VIN tag, trim tag and engine stamp pad.

Hi Joe,

Thank you for the advice. Here are the links for a few photos of the car:

I will very much appreciate any comments on the car in the photos. There is no doubt its a real, well documented car. It was inspected by a NCRS member before the seller purchased the car and is said to have the original and correct bloack, tranny, etc. What I do not know is the degree of the NCRS and Bloomington awards. Anything else you see will be appreciated... be a critical as you wish. I am very close to buying the car and really appreciate any advice. Please email me at: Myredslk@aol.com.

Chuck A