Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

[Scott S.]

Problem: the new '67 front clip sets too high where it meets the cowl area at the bottom of the windshield and doors (see pictures below). Lifting up on the front end fixes the problem, but then the bottom of the radiator support mounts are each about 1-1/4" above the frame horns where they should attach.

Shims for this area are shown on UPC 11-13-A5. Posts in the archives say the number of shims under the radiator support mounts were determined at the same time as the body mount shims, and then welded in place (radiator support shims only were welded - why?).

How many shims were typically used at the radiator support location? Something is off, I can't imagine 16 to 20 shims at 1/16" thickness each being used there.

Ideas or suggestions?

[Wayne W.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

I appears to be too low in the front, but only 4 or 5 shims in the front are common, so something else must be wrong. Can you lower the cowl?

[Scott S.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

I appears to be too low in the front, but only 4 or 5 shims in the front are common, so something else must be wrong. Can you lower the cowl?

Wayne,

I think we can lower the cowl. When we put the body on the frame (before removing the front clip), I didn't understand about the small "U" shaped shims, so we didn't use any. We used two of the large shims with the bent-down corners at each body mount, thinking the smaller "U" shaped shims were for height-adjustment.

At this point, the way we did it, I think the whole body is "jacked up" by the height of two large square shims at each body mount, as if we used them for spacers instead of height adjustment shims.

I'm thinking I should try the following:

1. raise the body (we built a body lift which can raise the body in small increments) enough to remove all of the large square bent-corner shims

2. lower the body until it solidly rests on at least one of the six main body mount brackets (no shims to be used at that bracket)

3. go around to the other five main body mount brackets and add the large square bent-corner shims as needed to fill the gap between the body and the frame.

At that point, the whole body should be slightly lower. If we then add 4 or 5 shims under the front radiator support mounts, the combination of lowering the body (from the cowl back) slightly and raising the front clip at the front by 1/4" (4 x 1/16" shims) should bring it closer to proper alignment.

My concern is that "leveling" the body on the frame won't really work, because our body lift won't raise or lower the body perfectly level, and the rolling chassis is certainly not perfectly level. Do we just set the the full weight of the body (from the cowl back) on the frame (resting it on the six body mount brackets with cushions installed), find (hopefully) one body mount position that is solid, and shim the rest to fill the gaps?

Sorry for the stupid questions, I know this is basic, I've just never done it before.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott,

Looking at your pictures even in the rear, it appears the body is set to high on the frame. If you do some reading in the archives about the shimming process some suggest setting the body on the frame without any shims to establish the high mount and start from there.

I think Wayne has suggested in the past to place three or four shims at all locations in the box section and start from there. When he reads this he will probably go through it for you..

[Joe R.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott,

I have a question for you. Have you ground off ALL the old bonding material from the cowl area? When you lift the front end, does it sit down snuggly on the cowl just in front of the windshield?

JR

[Wayne W.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

You should make sure the frame is straight and then support the frame itself without wheels so it is level. Then drop the body onto the frame. Shim so the body is level side to side and the loose spaces are filled with shims. Then go back and check the front end fit. Theoretically the suspension should hold the frame level when the wheels are on the ground, but that is not always the case. If not, you will need to determine what to do about that then.

[Scott S.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott,

Looking at your pictures even in the rear, it appears the body is set to high on the frame.

Tim,

I thought the same thing, but figured it was because there is not the usual weight on the body (no carpet, no padding, gas tank empty, no seats, no instrument cluster, no radio, etc.).

If you do some reading in the archives about the shimming process some suggest setting the body on the frame without any shims to establish the high mount and start from there.

I think that's what we'll try this evening. It seems I did it wrong before the front clip was removed. It would be good to get it right before the new front clip is attached.

I think Wayne has suggested in the past to place three or four shims at all locations in the box section and start from there. When he reads this he will probably go through it for you..

I'm not sure what that means, "the box section"? The kit I used was from Doc Rebuild, it had no instructions, and an extra set of body mounts labeled "INBOARD", which I suspect might be for 1963 only. There were two large square shims with bent-down corners with each body mount bolt. We used both of these at each location, thinking they were to be used like "spacers", and that the smaller "U" shaped shims were for height adjustment. Problem is, there's no "space" on the real car to fit those "U" shaped shims where the AIM says they should go.

Starting from scratch later this afternoon

[Scott S.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott,

I have a question for you. Have you ground off ALL the old bonding material from the cowl area? When you lift the front end, does it sit down snuggly on the cowl just in front of the windshield?

JR

Hi JR,

Yes, the old bonding material is all gone. I'll try to remember to take some better pictures this evening. It does seem to fit snuggly on the cowl when the front end is lifted upward.

[Scott S.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

You should make sure the frame is straight and then support the frame itself without wheels so it is level. Then drop the body onto the frame. Shim so the body is level side to side and the loose spaces are filled with shims. Then go back and check the front end fit. Theoretically the suspension should hold the frame level when the wheels are on the ground, but that is not always the case. If not, you will need to determine what to do about that then.

Thank you Wayne, I will work on it this evening and see if I can make it better.

[Joe R.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott,

Please keep us informed as some are confronted with this same problem when we try to bring these old bones from the grave.

The box Wayne is referring to is the mount at the firewall #2 and the mount in the front of the rear wheel wells #3. DON'T try to make the #4 mount work as it nearly always need more shims and will need some shimming to make the doors fit perfectly. Just leave the #4 loose and shim it to the rear of the doors later.

JR

[Gary F.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

When I pulled the body on my 63, there were NO shims at the #1 body mounts on either side, or any evidence of there ever being any.

[Brad S.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott, may sound like a stupid question but why is the front glass being replaced? Was the car wrecked ? I had similar problems with my 69 and the problem ended up that the car had been wrecked years ago and the frame was not repaired correctly. The frame "horns" were bent down one a little more than the other making hood alignment impossible. Also resulted in problems that your having. If you think about it theres not many cars that a corvette won't go under in a wreck. the first thing thats going to be bent are the frame horns and the area behind the front wheels. This just my experience

[Wayne W.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Brad, You are correct. Thats why I said in my first post to make sure the frame is straight. Only then can you know for sure whats going on.

[Tracy C.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott,

You haven't mentioned, but just to be sure...do you have a 67 frame and all of the correct body mount cushions in place at the frame locations?

Wayne mentioned frame alignment. Have you had this verifed by a compentant source?

If yes to all, it looks like you may need more shims in the back to teeter the front end down. If all else fails, take the body off the chassis and level it on four jack stands (one each corner of the bird cage) Bond the front end to the body using the measurments to the floor in your AIM and by using your eyeball to get the proper drop in the body line peaks along the side.

A frontal side view on each side from about 20 feet away will provide the best view.

Remember to dry fit everything with a .06 gap before bonding and devise a simple method to locate the front clip back into place when the adhesive is on. I used popsicle sticks to maintain my bondline gap in areas where I clamped the hood surround to the cowl. Use a bond adhesive with about 30 minutes of work time if you can so you can get everything where you want it with time to spare.

tc

[Scott S.]

Re: Front Clip not fitting - How many shims were used at the front Radiator Support?

Scott,

Please keep us informed as some are confronted with this same problem when we try to bring these old bones from the grave.

The box Wayne is referring to is the mount at the firewall #2 and the mount in the front of the rear wheel wells #3. DON'T try to make the #4 mount work as it nearly always need more shims and will need some shimming to make the doors fit perfectly. Just leave the #4 loose and shim it to the rear of the doors later.

JR

JR,

I understand now about the "box", thank you. I didn't get to work on the body mounts as much as I expected, we got sidetracked checking and re-checking the front frame horns for straightness, and then worked on the radiator support, drilling out both bolts that were broken off but still attached to the large square nut, inside the "cage" on the bottom radiator support mounts.

About leaving the #4 body mounts loose and adjusting it later to line up correctly with the rear of the doors, does that apply to coupes or convertibles (or both)?

I'm working on a coupe.