non-original sidepipe deduction...

[Bill W.]

Earlier this month Gary Beaupre ask what non-original sidepipes would cost the owner in points during judging. My 1966 coupe was judged at Joplin this year, my judging sheets arrived yesterday and after totaling the deductions for added sidepipes I come up with 83 points. Judges missed item 19 (exhaust tone) on operations. Had they caught this my deduction would have been 108. I expected I larger deduction, but checked the sheets twice.
My raw score was 90.3, but after adding 8.2 driving points my total was 98.5%. Bill

[Ralph B.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

Earlier this month Gary Beaupre ask what non-original sidepipes would cost the owner in points during judging. My 1966 coupe was judged at Joplin this year, my judging sheets arrived yesterday and after totaling the deductions for added sidepipes I come up with 83 points. Judges missed item 19 (exhaust tone) on operations. Had they caught this my deduction would have been 108. I expected I larger deduction, but checked the sheets twice.
My raw score was 90.3, but after adding 8.2 driving points my total was 98.5%. Bill

Does this reduction only apply to A.O. Smith cars or does it apply to St. Louis cars that were not originally side pipe cars as well, whereas effectively both scenarios are tecnically "non-original" ?
Ralph

[John H.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

Does this reduction only apply to A.O. Smith cars or does it apply to St. Louis cars that were not originally side pipe cars as well, whereas effectively both scenarios are tecnically "non-original" ?
Ralph

Ralph -

It applies to sidepipes on a car not originally built with them - body source doesn't matter (although that determination is a lot easier on an A.O. Smith-bodied car).

[Terry B.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

Hi Bill,

Am I correct in the math for your driving point that you drove your car over 800 miles (one way) to the Joplin regional? If so, Congrats!!

Terry

[Terry M.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

800 miles sounds about right -- New Mexico to Joplin. And I know Bill was not the only New mexico Resident to make that trip. On the other hand 800 miles (each way) with sidepipes is a whole other matter. Can you hear me now? Congratilations Bill.

[Bill W.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

Terry,
We had planned on driving both ways but one of our members had a spot open up in his trailer, so the '66 went home in style. One of the very few times it has seen the inside of a trailer. Bill

[Terry M.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

I thought I heard something about a trailer, but I wasn't sure I heard right -- and I didn't even get there with sidepipes. I was thinking of the Impala SS driver also. Fritz was there helping me. The New Mexico Chapter was well represented.

[Gary B.]

Non-original sidepipe deduction...

Earlier this month Gary Beaupre ask what non-original sidepipes would cost the owner in points during judging. My 1966 coupe was judged at Joplin this year, my judging sheets arrived yesterday and after totaling the deductions for added sidepipes I come up with 83 points. Judges missed item 19 (exhaust tone) on operations. Had they caught this my deduction would have been 108. I expected I larger deduction, but checked the sheets twice.
My raw score was 90.3, but after adding 8.2 driving points my total was 98.5%. Bill

Bill,

Did the judges make a deduct for missing fiberglass, where it is trimmed just behind the front wheels? I can't remember if that item (fiberglass fit and trim, or some similar wording) is on the chassis sheets or the exterior sheets.

Is the exhaust tone really worth 25 points? And if the OPs people had known it was not a side exhaust, would all 25 points for exhaust tone have been deducted?

Gary

[Bill W.]

Re: Non-original sidepipe deduction...

Bill,

Did the judges make a deduct for missing fiberglass, where it is trimmed just behind the front wheels? I can't remember if that item (fiberglass fit and trim, or some similar wording) is on the chassis sheets or the exterior sheets.

Is the exhaust tone really worth 25 points? And if the OPs people had known it was not a side exhaust, would all 25 points for exhaust tone have been deducted?

Gary

Gary,
No deduction was made for fiberglass fit and trim, although I expected it to be. As for exhaust tone, I think you can make a good argument that sidepipes do not sound like under car exhaust.
I think you make good point about the ops people knowing if the car had added pipes. I noted they were added on the "green sheet" but they must have missed that. Maybe a better way to handle this in the future would be an addition in the judging sheets for added pipes, take the points off all at once instead of several different places. Bill

[Philip A.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

I have been told that now, when a car is found to be non-original sidepipe during judging, it is going into the NCRS database as a "counterfeit" side pipie car and is not supposed to be judged again by NCRS until this has been corrected. Can someone confirm if this is correct?

[Gary B.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

I have been told that now, when a car is found to be non-original sidepipe during judging, it is going into the NCRS database as a "counterfeit" side pipie car and is not supposed to be judged again by NCRS until this has been corrected. Can someone confirm if this is correct?

Phillip,

I hope that is just an idle rumor, as it makes no sense to me.

Gary

[Joe R.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

I have been told that now, when a car is found to be non-original sidepipe during judging, it is going into the NCRS database as a "counterfeit" side pipie car and is not supposed to be judged again by NCRS until this has been corrected. Can someone confirm if this is correct?

Phillip,

I agree with Gary, I think someone has their facts crossed up.

Joe

[Harry S.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

As I understand a counterfeit call can be made at a Chapter Judging meet. The item that is called as counterfeit is entered into the NCRS database. As far as I know the car can be judged in the future but it is flagged as having a counterfeit component and that component is not judged in the future, just an automatic point deduct.

Saying that, I think the only place a counterfeit call should be made is at a Regional or a National. Why, the experience level of judges and Team Leaders at a Regional or National is far superior than at a Chapter Judging meet.

[Bill W.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

I have been told that now, when a car is found to be non-original sidepipe during judging, it is going into the NCRS database as a "counterfeit" side pipie car and is not supposed to be judged again by NCRS until this has been corrected. Can someone confirm if this is correct?

Philip,
I am not sure this is correct. Mr. Sinor monitors this board, I'll let him comment on this. As for me, I stated on the "green Sheet" that I added sidepipes, so I am not trying to hide anything and am willing to take any deduction the NCRS hands out. I will drive to meets far enough away to offset any deduction.
My car will never be able to obtain a "Duntov" in it's present configuration, but I think that is it's only libility. My car's present options list (several added by me) represent the way I should have ordered it had I known and had the money back then. I doubt that I will be prevented from showing my car again because of added sidepipes, but will respect any decision made by Roy. Bill

[John S.]

Re: non-original sidepipe deduction...

if side pipes on a C2 are added correctly(as the factory would have installed them) what is the "standard deduction" and what categories are they in. i like to see the breakdown on deducted points. also while on the subject of deductions, what is the deduction for no overspray on c1 and c2 exhaust manifolds. i have seen deductions vary and if there was never an attempt to overspray the manifolds i would think there should be a standard deduction.