How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

[Chris E.]

Has anyone else seen these? I just received an email about them. Looks like Long Island has a supplier now that makes MAGNETIC exhaust extensions.

The 67 TIM/JG says that "most have a part number", yet the part from LI doesn't.

How would these judge?

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~partsort~1~cadeikba

[John M.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Chris,
I got that also. I have a 65 and the manual for that car says there is no part number so I guess one does not fit all.
If you go to Corvette Central they have them with the part number. Confusing.
John

[Gary B.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Has anyone else seen these? I just received an email about them. Looks like Long Island has a supplier now that makes MAGNETIC exhaust extensions.

The 67 TIM/JG says that "most have a part number", yet the part from LI doesn't.

How would these judge?

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....ort~1~cadeikba

Chris,

It really depends on what judge you get and whether they know about the part # vs. no part number issue and what they think of that issue. There are lots of postings on the DB that claim there should be no part number on tips used in production. But I believe several of the mid-year JGs still say there should be a part number. If you get a judge who goes by the JG and you have tips w/o a part number (even 45-y.o. original tips), I think you're going to take a deduct. On the other hand, if you get a judge who has read the DB postings and is convinced there should be no part number, then that judge may take a deduct for tips that have the part number, regardless of the what the current JG says.

Gary

[Tracy C.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Chris,

It really depends on what judge you get and whether they know about the part # vs. no part number issue and what they think of that issue. .... that judge may take a deduct for tips that have the part number, regardless of the what the current JG says.

Gary

Gary, If a judge takes a deduct for a component that is "as described" by the JG, I think the owner should elevate the issue to the event Judging chair or team leader. In my opinion, the burden of proof is on the judge to convince the National team leader to change his JG in such cases. Rignt or wrong, the owner should not be penalized for abiding by the book.

tc

[Russ S.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

The latest 66 judging guide says NO part number. Previous 66 JG said with part number.

[Chris E.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Gary, If a judge takes a deduct for a component that is "as described" by the JG, I think the owner should elevate the issue to the event Judging chair or team leader. In my opinion, the burden of proof is on the judge to convince the National team leader to change his JG in such cases. Rignt or wrong, the owner should not be penalized for abiding by the book.

tc

Tracy,

So that brings up an interested problem with this particular part for my car.

The 67 JG right now says something like "many tips have part numbers". It sort of implies that not ALL tips have part numbers.

In Regional judging, I took a 1 point hit because the tips were not magnetic. That item isn't mentioned in the judging guide anywhere.

So, given that the new part available from Long Island is magnetic BUT doesn't have the part number.........would I get my point back?

I think I would. I could say "the book says MANY tips have a part number, it doesn't say ALL tips have a part number".

Seems reasonable to me, but I wanted to run it past you guys first.

[Gary B.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Tracy,

So that brings up an interested problem with this particular part for my car.

The 67 JG right now says something like "many tips have part numbers". It sort of implies that not ALL tips have part numbers.

In Regional judging, I took a 1 point hit because the tips were not magnetic. That item isn't mentioned in the judging guide anywhere.

So, given that the new part available from Long Island is magnetic BUT doesn't have the part number.........would I get my point back?

I think I would. I could say "the book says MANY tips have a part number, it doesn't say ALL tips have a part number".

Seems reasonable to me, but I wanted to run it past you guys first.

Chris,

The deduct for non-magnetic is an example of where the judge knew something that wasn't in the JG. I think he/she was correct taking that deduct. But certainly not all judges would have taken a deduct for something not in the JG.

And sometime within the past 6 yo 8 years, I'd guess, judges were taking deducts if the tip held a magnet, since they (incorrectly) concluded from that test that the tips were not stainless.

Based on the "many tips have part numbers" phrase, I see no way a judge could take a deduct for tips either with or without part numbers.

I am definitely going to purchase a set of the new LIC tips for my '66, since the '66 JG is now unequivocal about there being no part numbers. I think the '67 JG may have the same language some day, but I won't predict when that will happen and I wouldn't bet the farm on it happening for certain.

Gary

[Gene M.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Chris,

The deduct for non-magnetic is an example of where the judge knew something that wasn't in the JG. I think he/she was correct taking that deduct. But certainly not all judges would have taken a deduct for something not in the JG.......................

Gary

I suggest one look at this from the owner's perspective. The judging reference manual say the word "appears" in the evaluation of pieces on the car. No where is there a reference as to metallurgical verification. Use of a magnet is not a visual evaluation.

I suggest if one judge cannot distinguish stainless steel 420 grade from 304 grade or carbon steel by looking at it then he is not qualified to make a deduction.

[Gary B.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

I suggest if one judge cannot distinguish stainless steel 420 grade from 304 grade or carbon steel by looking at it then he is not qualified to make a deduction.

Gene,

I'd say it's a whole lot easier for those of us who are non-experts to use a magnet to distinguish between the two alloys.

Gary

[Gene M.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Gene,

I'd say it's a whole lot easier for those of us who are non-experts to use a magnet to distinguish between the two alloys.

Gary

That is not the point. If the paint finish "looks" like lacquer but it is actually enamel or urethane it is judged ok. A judge does not pull out a spectrometer and verify it as not being lacquer.

The part has to only "appear" per our judging standard to be as original. And if it appears as original then it is no deduction. Do you see what this means to an owner? Are we going to judge everything per the reference manual or select and choose?

[John D.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Many of us have boxes of NOS midyear exhaust tips in the blue/white box.
Truth of the matter is they are far from being correct for judging.
When my 63 was re-restored I was in a bind for NOS exhaust extensions. The NOS ones I had were ALL wrong. Ended up getting my beat up ones restored. Highly unlikely you will ever find NOS correct ones for the early midyears.
Now I know nothing about the new repros LI is making. I imagine they are pretty nice though. JD

[Dick W.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

I suggest if one judge cannot distinguish stainless steel 420 grade from 304 grade or carbon steel by looking at it then he is not qualified to make a deduction.

Guess that I am not qualified

[Gary B.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Not to beat a dead horse, but until the National Judging Chair tells chassis judges to stop using magnets to test for SS brake lines, exhaust tips, etc., I will continue to use one, at least until I can distinguish among stainless steels without one.

But I do understand your point about "appears to". That's partly why I'm very uncomfortable about judging paint, hence my strong reluctance to ever judge exterior.

Gary

[Tony S.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Hey Chris. Do the LI extensions also have a seam?
Tony

[Gary B.]

Re: How would this part judge? (new Long Island exhaust extensions)

Hey Chris. Do the LI extensions also have a seam?
Tony

Tony,

According to the LIC website, yes they have a seam.

Gary