Air filter anyone???

[Pat M.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

All------


Actually, I don't think this AC212CW air cleaner element is correct for 1965-69 Corvettes, except possibly very late 1969. It is correct for 1970-72, though. 1965-69 used a bias mesh, soldered screen. 1970-72 used the "square" mesh style.

This subject has always thoroughly confused me, and IMO the JG doesn't help by using sentences that border on being riddles. Instead of simply saying which years used a square or diamond screen pattern, it first says "AC Delco reports production of air filters with the wire on the bias ended in calender year 1969." What the heck is wire on the bias? Is that a diamond pattern, meaning it ended in 1969?

If so, then why does the JG go on to say "We have seen enough original filters ... to conclude the correct original 1970-1972 air filter used an expanded metal outer screen. It had a vertical pattern where the long dimension of each opening in the screen is in the vertical axis." Doesn't this sentence suggest that a diamond pattern would be correct for 70-72?

I thought so, so I used a Paragon repo with a diamond pattern for my 70 and was never told the pattern was incorrect all the way to the National level.

So should 70-72 have a screen with a diamond pattern, or a square pattern?

[Dave S.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

This subject has always thoroughly confused me, and IMO the JG doesn't help by using sentences that border on being riddles. Instead of simply saying which years used a square or diamond screen pattern, it first says "AC Delco reports production of air filters with the wire on the bias ended in calender year 1969." What the heck is wire on the bias? Is that a diamond pattern, meaning it ended in 1969?

If so, then why does the JG go on to say "We have seen enough original filters ... to conclude the correct original 1970-1972 air filter used an expanded metal outer screen. It had a vertical pattern where the long dimension of each opening in the screen is in the vertical axis." Doesn't this sentence suggest that a diamond pattern would be correct for 70-72?

I thought so, so I used a Paragon repo with a diamond pattern for my 70 and was never told the pattern was incorrect all the way to the National level.

So should 70-72 have a screen with a diamond pattern, or a square pattern?

Pat,
The wording in the Judging Guide was the best information that was available to the volunteers that put together the manual many years ago. Hopefully you understand that these current discussions make us all more knowledgeable and we can use those discussions to educate the re-write team and to improve the next edition.

I did not write the original manual but if I did I'd take significant exception to your reference to "riddles". I think you should be much more careful with your words and show some respect to those who worked hard to make what is an excellent judging guide.

I can assure you that the re-write that is in progress as we speak, will clarify this air filter explanation and many other items as well. All this will
reduce the "riddles".

Maybe you should create a write up on air filters and submit it to the 70/72 team leader.

[Pat M.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Dave I apologize if I offended you or anyone else connected with putting the manual together. I agree that overall it is an outstanding guide put together by gracious volunteers.

I was/am simply frustrated that there is not a more simple statement as to what screen pattern was used in what years, but I do agree I should have been more careful with my words.

[Joe L.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Dave I apologize if I offended you or anyone else connected with putting the manual together. I agree that overall it is an outstanding guide put together by gracious volunteers.

I was/am simply frustrated that there is not a more simple statement as to what screen pattern was used in what years, but I do agree I should have been more careful with my words.

Pat------


My opinion:

1965-69----bias ("diamond") mesh, soldered wire screen.

1970-72 (possibly very late 1969)---square mesh, soldered wire screen.

If an expanded metal type screen was used for 1970-72, I'm unaware of it. In fact, the air filter seen in the eBay item that's the original subject of this thread is from 1974 per the date on the box. It uses a square mesh, soldered wire screen. So, if expanded metal was used during the 1970-74 period, it must have been used ALTERNATELY with the soldered wire type.

By the way, there never was any square mesh, expanded metal-type screen that I'm aware of. All expanded metal is bias ("diamond") pattern.

[Pat M.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Pat------


My opinion:

1965-69----bias ("diamond") mesh, soldered wire screen.

1970-72 (possibly very late 1969)---square mesh, soldered wire screen.

If an expanded metal type screen was used for 1970-72, I'm unaware of it. In fact, the air filter seen in the eBay item that's the original subject of this thread is from 1974 per the date on the box. It uses a square mesh, soldered wire screen. So, if expanded metal was used during the 1970-74 period, it must have been used ALTERNATELY with the soldered wire type.

By the way, there never was any square mesh, expanded metal-type screen that I'm aware of. All expanded metal is bias ("diamond") pattern.

Thanks Joe, I find that very helpful. What is the difference between soldered wire screen and expanded metal screen?

[Donald O.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

All------


Actually, I don't think this AC212CW air cleaner element is correct for 1965-69 Corvettes, except possibly very late 1969. It is correct for 1970-72, though. 1965-69 used a bias mesh, soldered screen. 1970-72 used the "square" mesh style.

Its says to use the A212CW on the inside of my 67's original air cleaner lid. Is the AC212CW a different item?

[Joe L.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Thanks Joe, I find that very helpful. What is the difference between soldered wire screen and expanded metal screen?

Pat-----


The soldered wire type screen is composed of galvanized, round wire which has a very small "blob" of solder where the wires cross. It can be seen in the eBay item that is the subject of this thread.

The expanded metal type screen is composed of flat metal which is slit and "pulled" to form the openings. This type of construction always produces "diamond" shaped perforations. Just about any open element air filter purchased for the last 20+ years right to the present utilizes some version of the expanded metal screen.

Oh, and AC 212CW and A212CW are the same thing.

[Joe L.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Its says to use the A212CW on the inside of my 67's original air cleaner lid. Is the AC212CW a different item?

Don-----


The AC 212CW was first released for the 1965 model year. It has been continuously available from GM and AC Delco from that time right up to the present time. Various figments of configuration of this filter have changed over the years and certain configurations are considered correct for certain year model ranges. The basic functionality and application of the filter has not changed over the years, though.

[Pat M.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Pat-----


The soldered wire type screen is composed of galvanized, round wire which has a very small "blob" of solder where the wires cross. It can be seen in the eBay item that is the subject of this thread.

The expanded metal type screen is composed of flat metal which is slit and "pulled" to form the openings. This type of construction always produces "diamond" shaped perforations. Just about any open element air filter purchased for the last 20+ years right to the present utilizes some version of the expanded metal screen.

Oh, and AC 212CW and A212CW are the same thing.

Thank you Joe.

[Paul O.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Pat if you go to my reply it #36 click on the tread I posted there and view the different photos and you will see the difference soldered wire mesh and expanded metal mesh. You know a picture is some times worth a thousand words. Hope this helps you.

Paul 18046

[Pat M.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Pat if you go to my reply it #36 click on the tread I posted there and view the different photos and you will see the difference soldered wire mesh and expanded metal mesh. You know a picture is some times worth a thousand words. Hope this helps you.

Paul 18046

Thanks Paul.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Lots of great discussion...

AC Spark Plug is the GM Division that engineered these filters from the inception - through the mid 1980's, so 'AC type A212CW' is the formal or print based terminology.

The W was dropped beyond the period we are interested in for a cost save. The W refers to OIL Whetted which was a cheap way to increase the filters efficiency where AC SP was using "essentially" a low tech cheap paper. In the long run their decision to stay the course and add oil would cost them more in lieu of accepting the paper suppliers recommendations of a higher efficiency filter at lower cost. More later on about how this affects our perception of what we like to see 40 years down the road.

Shifting to what metal round wire woven cut on a bias 45degrees, horizontal, or expanded 'diamond' metal is correct...

65-68 MY is real clear - 45 bias and round wire.

After that the lack of prints and the presence of the later two in the same time period; some in boxes, some on cars, creates a real dilemma 40 years later where the manufacturing process that made these was set up to run one or the other and not necessarily were these compatible to run at the same time.

[Terry M.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Lots of great discussion...

AC Spark Plug is the GM Division that engineered these filters from the inception - through the mid 1980's, so 'AC type A212CW' is the formal or print based terminology.

The W was dropped beyond the period we are interested in for a cost save. The W refers to OIL Whetted which was a cheap way to increase the filters efficiency where AC SP was using "essentially" a low tech cheap paper. In the long run their decision to stay the course and add oil would cost them more in lieu of accepting the paper suppliers recommendations of a higher efficiency filter at lower cost. More later on about how this affects our perception of what we like to see 40 years down the road.

Shifting to what metal round wire woven cut on a bias 45degrees, horizontal, or expanded 'diamond' metal is correct...

65-68 MY is real clear - 45 bias and round wire.

After that the lack of prints and the presence of the later two in the same time period; some in boxes, some on cars, creates a real dilemma 40 years later where the manufacturing process that made these was set up to run one or the other and not necessarily were these compatible to run at the same time.

Ron, I am going to have to look at my stash of A212CW air filters, but I seem to remember the W on air filters I bought as SERVICE parts in the 1980s -- after they went to the white resin paper. In fact I know the filter catalogs of that time failed to carry the foot note of the earlier catalogs explaining the meaning of the W suffix even though the application listing in the catalog still showed the W suffix.

The oil wetted feature makes those filters easy to spot in a swap meet. Just look for the oil stained box.

We need to be careful in assessing what assembly line filters (ALL kinds) looked like. If we base our assessments on SERVICE parts we run the risk of ignoring the possibility that the assembly line installed filters were different than the SERVICE units so that warrantee determinations could be made regarding proper maintenance. Don’t you think there was some difference in the assembly line parts so proper maintenance could be determined?

Start looking around the Web for oil filters. If you search thoroughly you will find significantly different assembly line PF25s than we have called for. Maybe on my days off I will start another thread and post the links for you guys, but I am not sure I can stand to burst the bubbles.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Terry, I'll be the first to tell you there was a difference in what went into an air cleaner assembly (part number) that an assembly plant purchased from ACSPD, versus what went into a box (part number) and sold to the outside world as a service part.

From a factory install point of view, anything Corvette '73 MY and beyond is not important to the OE quest and yes, the 80's filters would still have oil. Post mid 80's that's another thing, I haven't seen one in a box dated 1988, 88, 1990 so if you have one perhaps we can stretch the window in time, but those filters are worth about as much as the current reproduction filter (IMHO).

[Terry M.]

Re: Air filter anyone???

Give me a few days off work and I'll inventory what I have for the A212CW AND AC212CW filters. I have to re-load my picture software too. I am still recovering from a computer meltdown two months ago.

I still believe we may be chasing a ghost by concentrating on the SERVICE filters rather than the ones that might be assembly line units. I understand examining the SERVICE units if it is all we have to go on, but we ought not to ignore the assembly line evidence when it is available.