Rusty bores

[Joe R.]

Re: Rusty bores

Joe------


A new GM 454 steel crank GM lists for about $900. Aftermarket steel are more. Finding a good used 454 steel crank can be difficult and will still be relatively expensive. If you were to have it internally balanced, it would probably run at least $400-500 more and you'll also need to completely rebalance the reciprocating parts of th engine. You will also require new pistons. If you don't have the crank internally balanced, you'll need a new flywheel and harmonic balancer.

I don't see any corrosion in the bores below the first 1/2", or so. If there is more corrosion, then you will need to disassemble the engine for thorough corrosion removal.

Joe,

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure the corrosion goes down a lot more than 1/2 " down the bore. The pictures don't really do the rust justice. I have the heads and intake bolted on right now with no gaskets. When I get a chance I'll measure how far down the rust goes.

What is the GM part number for the crank, etc?

Thanks,
Joe

[Dick W.]

Re: Rusty bores

Takes considerable grinding on the inside of the block to get the rods to clear. The first block to have clearance was the 512 machined somewhere in mid '69. Earlier 351, 270, 289, and 512 blocks did not have enough clearance.

[Joe R.]

Re: Rusty bores

Takes considerable grinding on the inside of the block to get the rods to clear. The first block to have clearance was the 512 machined somewhere in mid '69. Earlier 351, 270, 289, and 512 blocks did not have enough clearance.

Dick,

This is a 3869942 block, which I'm sure is in the same category as the others you listed.

Joe

[Clem Z.]

Re: Rusty bores

if the bores just have surface rust wipe them down with kroil on a rag. if the bores have pitting honing will make the piston to wall clearance too great. you would have to bore to the next over size. scotch brite leaves abrasive fibers that have to be clean out so you would have to take the rotating assy out to clean the block

[Joe R.]

Re: Rusty bores

if the bores just have surface rust wipe them down with kroil on a rag. if the bores have pitting honing will make the piston to wall clearance too great. you would have to bore to the next over size. scotch brite leaves abrasive fibers that have to be clean out so you would have to take the rotating assy out to clean the block

Clem,

Thanks for the info! Another surprise, I thought you would be in the 454 camp all the way!

Joe

[Clem Z.]

Re: Rusty bores

Clem,

Thanks for the info! Another surprise, I thought you would be in the 454 camp all the way!

Joe

i know you have to clearance the block and you have to be careful you don't grind thru the main oil gallery at the bottom of the block. the change over is not just a bolt in.

[Dick W.]

Re: Rusty bores

Dick,

This is a 3869942 block, which I'm sure is in the same category as the others you listed.

Joe

I wanted to add that number, but could not remember it. I built the engine for the '66 425 and use the rotating assembly from a 488 inch boat motor in it. Had a major problem though, it would not move out of its tracks when you nailed it. It just melted the rear tires

[Joe R.]

Re: Rusty bores

i know you have to clearance the block and you have to be careful you don't grind thru the main oil gallery at the bottom of the block. the change over is not just a bolt in.

Clem,

Understood. Still, the thought of 27 extra cubic inches may be too much temptation for a mere mortal with a lead foot like me.

Joe

[Joe R.]

Re: Rusty bores

I wanted to add that number, but could not remember it. I built the engine for the '66 425 and use the rotating assembly from a 488 inch boat motor in it. Had a major problem though, it would not move out of its tracks when you nailed it. It just melted the rear tires

Dick,

I really feel for you! What a terrible problem to have!

Joe

[Domenic T.]

Re: Rusty bores

Joe,
I never had a problem with rusted cylinders and cleaned them up without a long term problem.
Any rust pits are actually good and compliment the honing ( they also hold oil) I had a few industrial engines with rusted cylinders that were needed to keep business running and they ran forever.

What I will say is that if you get a chemical in the ring lands it can permentally stick the rings if the engine sits again.

I have dealt with that ( chemical welding) and never removed a ring even with a press just to see if they would seperate from the aluminum after giving up. Indifference in metals and a chemical is all it takes.

I have found that the only oil that does not gum up for storage is ATF.

Even tested marvel mystery oil.

The ATF is good in the rings but should not stay on rubber as it will swell engine rubber.

My tests were on about 400 model airplane engines I have on display in my living room. The only ones that would turn over by hand were the ones with ATF. Marvel, 3&1, and all others gummed up in a few years but the ATF looked and worked year after year. I did not any synthetic oils.

DOM

[Joe L.]

Re: Rusty bores

Joe,

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure the corrosion goes down a lot more than 1/2 " down the bore. The pictures don't really do the rust justice. I have the heads and intake bolted on right now with no gaskets. When I get a chance I'll measure how far down the rust goes.

What is the GM part number for the crank, etc?

Thanks,
Joe

Joe-----


The crank is GM #3963524. If you don't have it internally balanced, the flywheel is GM #3993827 and the balancer GM #10216339. If you have the crank internally balanced, you can use the existing 427 flywheel and balancer. You will need to use aftermarket pistons. No GM pistons are available for either 427 or 454.

You will also likely need to change the oil pan. Use GM #14091356. Externally, this pan is virtually identical to your original but it has revised internal baffling to clear the 454 crank and it's supplied with an external baffle that will also clear the 454 crank.

As others have mentioned, you do need to clearance the block for the 454 crank and that involves grinding the area inboard of the oil pan rails. If you do this, you must be VERY careful. As clem mentioned, the main oil gallery on a Mark IV (except ZL-1) big block is located just above the left oil pan rail. If you grind too deep, you will ruin the block.

[Dick W.]

Re: Rusty bores

Dick,

I really feel for you! What a terrible problem to have!

Joe

One of my real good friends has an engine shop that does R & D for Hendricks, and builds the motors for Ricks play toys. The 488 guts came out of one of his boat motors. Needed one piston and rod and was ready to install.

[Joe R.]

Re: Rusty bores

Joe-----


The crank is GM #3963524. If you don't have it internally balanced, the flywheel is GM #3993827 and the balancer GM #10216339. If you have the crank internally balanced, you can use the existing 427 flywheel and balancer. You will need to use aftermarket pistons. No GM pistons are available for either 427 or 454.

You will also likely need to change the oil pan. Use GM #14091356. Externally, this pan is virtually identical to your original but it has revised internal baffling to clear the 454 crank and it's supplied with an external baffle that will also clear the 454 crank.

As others have mentioned, you do need to clearance the block for the 454 crank and that involves grinding the area inboard of the oil pan rails. If you do this, you must be VERY careful. As clem mentioned, the main oil gallery on a Mark IV (except ZL-1) big block is located just above the left oil pan rail. If you grind too deep, you will ruin the block.

Joe,

Thanks again for your help. If I go the 454 route, what would you recommend for rods? Would the 427 oil pump work fine in a 454 application?

Joe

[Joe L.]

Re: Rusty bores

Joe,

Thanks again for your help. If I go the 454 route, what would you recommend for rods? Would the 427 oil pump work fine in a 454 application?

Joe

Joe-----


The 427 oil pump will be fine for the 454.

You can use the 427 rods you have. However, these are 3/8" bolt rods assuming the rods are original to the engine. A much better choice would be rod GM #10198922. However, these rods GM list for about 125 bucks, each, so there goes another pretty good chunk of change. You could also obtain excellent aftermarket rods in the same price range or, even, less.

[Joe R.]

Re: Rusty bores

Joe-----


The 427 oil pump will be fine for the 454.

You can use the 427 rods you have. However, these are 3/8" bolt rods assuming the rods are original to the engine. A much better choice would be rod GM #10198922. However, these rods GM list for about 125 bucks, each, so there goes another pretty good chunk of change. You could also obtain excellent aftermarket rods in the same price range or, even, less.

Joe,

It has been bored 0.030 " over and does not have the original rods or pistons. I believe the rods are Speed Pro, but don't quote me on it. What would be an example of excellent aftermarket rods?

Joe