'90s vintage ZR1s

[Michael J.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

I think it also interesting that the new ZR1 prices are sinking like a rock too. You can get them for $80-$90K with only a few thousand miles. I would be willing to bet they will be selling for what the '90s vintage ones are now in a few years. Seems all new cars drop like a rock, even more reason to buy classics.

[Paul J.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

So the only reason C4s don't command high prices at this moment in time is because they supposedly don't look good? Me thinks it may be just a wee bit more complicated than that...

It's the market, Pat. It's not complicated. As I said, the looks are only one reason for the lower prices. As Tom said, they built a billion of them, so they are not rare. The parts issues also make them less than desirable.

The only good thing that I see about them is that they are priced low enough to attract some of the younger people into the hobby, and that's a good thing, since mid years and earlier cars are far too expensive.

[Pat M.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

Trying to remember the factual details, did the ZR1 set a 24 indurance record that still stands?

Jim, as far as I know that record still stands. In 1990 a basically stock ZR-1 averaged over 175 mph for 24 hours, which was then a 50-year-old record irrespective of category or class. Amazing.

It's the market, Pat. It's not complicated. As I said, the looks are only one reason for the lower prices. As Tom said, they built a billion of them, so they are not rare. The parts issues also make them less than desirable.

The only good thing that I see about them is that they are priced low enough to attract some of the younger people into the hobby, and that's a good thing, since mid years and earlier cars are far too expensive.

Paul, it's far more complicated than just the car's looks (which I know you didn't limit it to). In addition to what you listed, nearly half of the C4 model years built are less than 20 years old, which some appraisers consider a car's value LOW point. With time values will only increase, as they have with EVERY other generation.

So one cannot look at today's C4 values as some sort of ill-fitting measurement as to whether the C4 is attractive or not.

Also some (overly critical IMO) people complain about the ride, engress and egress (none of which bother me a wit), etc., which again have nothing to do with appearance.

I see a lot of great things about the C4 other than simply bringing in new enthusiasts. Especially it's looks. C'est la vie.

[Dick W.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

It is not so much that the whatever is bad on the C-4 cars, each year and each generation is so much better than the preceeding. People tend to forget that the '63 was not that great a car when it first came out. It was fraught with bugs, same as the '68 and the '84, but each year got better

Each car is the best for what it was.

[Michael F.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

It is not so much that the whatever is bad on the C-4 cars, each year and each generation is so much better than the preceeding. People tend to forget that the '63 was not that great a car when it first came out. It was fraught with bugs, same as the '68 and the '84, but each year got better

Each car is the best for what it was.

Very true. But the 63s don't have the devaluation of the 68 and 84 cars.

As technology rose so did the complexity of the issues and therefore the complexity of curing the issues.

The only issues I haven't cured are the solid body mounts and a flimsy steering column. Mine is a late 63. Which was already benefitting from mid year changes.

[Steve B.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

It is not so much that the whatever is bad on the C-4 cars, each year and each generation is so much better than the preceeding. People tend to forget that the '63 was not that great a car when it first came out. It was fraught with bugs, same as the '68 and the '84, but each year got better

Each car is the best for what it was.

I agree with this. The solid lifter BB vettes were the performance benchmark for many years and I think that has something to do with its desirablility. I owned a Callaway Twin Turbo as well as a ZR1 and both were great cars but they do not stir the soul like the classics even though they were better cars. The look of the car is definetly another factor whether people want to admit it or not. I remember in 1987 reading motor trend and it had a 67 435 on the cover with a license plate saying 100K. Thats twenty times its price when new. I don't ever see my old Callaway or ZR1 even approaching MSRP. The market has spoken on C4s plain and simple. Judging how the C6 ZR1s are doing, they will not fare much better. BTW, I love all Corvettes and do not mean to hurt anyones feeling, just an observation from a Corvette nut since I was a child.

[Michael F.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

I agree with this. The solid lifter BB vettes were the performance benchmark for many years and I think that has something to do with its desirablility. I owned a Callaway Twin Turbo as well as a ZR1 and both were great cars but they do not stir the soul like the classics even though they were better cars. The look of the car is definetly another factor whether people want to admit it or not. I remember in 1987 reading motor trend and it had a 67 435 on the cover with a license plate saying 100K. Thats twenty times its price when new. I don't ever see my old Callaway or ZR1 even approaching MSRP. The market has spoken plain and simple. BTW, I love all Corvettes!

Me too!

I would add the guy in the Viper,Porsche,Ferrari, even a new Z-R1 is still drooling over mine at the stop light.

Those kinda guys don't break character too often. But they seem to wet their pants when a C2 arrives at the light. Very satisfying!

[Patrick H.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

Very true. But the 63s don't have the devaluation of the 68 and 84 cars.

They did 40 years ago. Talk to people who bought them as used cars in the 70s for $1000 to $3000. A friend bought his 64 in 1971 for $800.

They've just had a chance to appreciate since then. And, for a variety of reasons I suspect that they will always be worth more than most later Corvettes.

[Michael F.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

I am sure you are correct about that. If my memory is correct, the split window was the first if the C2s that started the investment C2 thing back in the 70s.

[Dick W.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

I agree with this. The solid lifter BB vettes were the performance benchmark for many years and I think that has something to do with its desirablility. I owned a Callaway Twin Turbo as well as a ZR1 and both were great cars but they do not stir the soul like the classics even though they were better cars. The look of the car is definetly another factor whether people want to admit it or not. I remember in 1987 reading motor trend and it had a 67 435 on the cover with a license plate saying 100K. Thats twenty times its price when new. I don't ever see my old Callaway or ZR1 even approaching MSRP. The market has spoken on C4s plain and simple. Judging how the C6 ZR1s are doing, they will not fare much better. BTW, I love all Corvettes and do not mean to hurt anyones feeling, just an observation from a Corvette nut since I was a child.

I would love to have the mid years I bought for under $1,800 during the '70's. What about the '66 425 with a brand new, out of the box '67 bolt on wheels that I gave $2,300 for. Oh, by the way, it had one of those funny oversized fuel tanks (36.5 gallons), and did I tell you that the transmission whined something terrible (M-22). Just found out a few years ago that the previous owner had relined the brakes and have a real problem finding pads, seems they had two pins in the pads(J-56). This was at the height of the gas crisis. Kept the wheels, made $500 when I flipped it. That was all the money in the world for that car.

[Justin B.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

It's the market, Pat. It's not complicated. As I said, the looks are only one reason for the lower prices. As Tom said, they built a billion of them, so they are not rare. The parts issues also make them less than desirable.

The only good thing that I see about them is that they are priced low enough to attract some of the younger people into the hobby, and that's a good thing, since mid years and earlier cars are far too expensive.

Back in 1983 the 1984 Corvette rolled out. This was the early days of video games, the T.V. show KNIGHT RIDER was popular (we all remember K.I.T.T), robots, Apple computers...you get the drift, this was the beginning of the computer era. The 84' was new age with its' super sleek, aero dynamic exterior, digital dash, etc. This thing was hot!! The automotive press raved. It handled like it was on a rail. These were the times when hot rod cars were coming back to life. I was in 6th grade. Its what we grow up with...I guess. Some people aren't opened to change. The C4 brought us a LONG ways from where we were in the seventies. Most models may never be collectable but they will out handle and out perform any of what I consider to be the most unattractive 1974-1982 Corvettes. As for quality...neiter the C3 or early C4 have a whole lot going for them but the later C4 are quite good cars. I've had three ZR1's. A 1990 with 781 miles, another 1990 with 2800 miles and a super running bone stock 1991 ZR1 with 120,00 miles. And for the person who said that the C4 is most likely for someone who can't afford a more expensive Vette...I have a big brake 58' fuelie, a 60 fuelie, and a 2008 Z06. I think they are all great. Although most NCRS aren't like this, I've personally experienced members who have stucker their noses up to younger people without the funds to afford more expensive cars. Look at the photos in the Restorer magazines of recent events of all the members having a good time....where is NCRS's future?? Not in the picture

[Terry M.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

Look at the photos in the Restorer magazines of recent events of all the members having a good time....where is NCRS's future?? Not in the picture

Dick Guldstrand said: "Talking to Corvette fans now is like talking to an audience of Q-Tips." He obviously didn't include me in that comment because I haven't been that thin in years, but his point is well taken.

Of course our age is easy to note as an issue, and not so easy to solve. I am not sure where or what the solution is.

[Clem Z.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

BJ has ruined the corvette market as most everyone with a older corvette thinks it is their retirement insurance policy. used to be a corvette had to be 20 years old before it reached its original selling price so there is no reason it should be worth 20 times its original selling price when it is 40 years old. JMHO

[Eric J.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

The 24 hour record fell in to a V12 VW. The team that set the record back in 1990 said the VW was purpose built really a race car and the ZR-1 was a stock off the shelf 1989. It did have better lighting, roll cage, tires, and other safety related parts but the driveline and chassis were what came from BG. Last year was the 20th anniversary of the record and the C4 Gathering at the NCM spent a lot of time honoring it. For those of you that attended that event you relize how special the C4 ZR-1 was. Never again will we see such a highly engineered low production Corvette.

I currently own a Corvette of every generation with the exception of an early bumper C3 and a C6. For me having gone to High School and College during the C4 era I am drawn to them as they were the Corvettes I really badly wanted. So now I have 6 of them. 84, 89, 89 ZR-1 #004, 89 ZR-1 #74, 95PC, 96 LT4 CE vert.

IMHO All Corvettes are special, all are worthy of respect. Even an 1982 California 305ci err 1980 as noted

[Tom H.]

Re: '90s vintage ZR1s

IMHO All Corvettes are special, all are worthy of respect. Even an 1982 California 305ci

Agreed !!! To set the record straight, the California 305 was from 1980 and had RPO of LG4 !