65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

[James W.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

I have seen single unrestored, original, dated KH knock-off wheels come up for auction on Flebay several times with say a 4-27-65 date stamped into them without accent paint between the fins. I assume this would be a GM over-the-counter service replacement...correct? Even though the date is already into the third quarter of '65 production wouldn't KH have applied the accent paint between the fins or was there a 1964 and 1965 p/n available from GM at that time when ordering a replacement wheel?

Just curious.


Thanks,

James West

[Dick W.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Is Dobbins wrong or are 63 painted silver and 64 not painted at all.

Thanks for any help...

Urban myth, 1963 KO's did not exist

[James W.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

I forgot to ask this question in my earlier post. Do most of the Corvette vendors sell the '64 KO wheel ink date stamp kits? if not who is the source for these stamp kits?

Thanks,

James West

[Wayne M.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

I have seen single unrestored, original, dated KH knock-off wheels come up for auction on Flebay several times with say a 4-27-65 date stamped into them without accent paint between the fins. I assume this would be a GM over-the-counter service replacement...correct? Even though the date is already into the third quarter of '65 production wouldn't KH have applied the accent paint between the fins or was there a 1964 and 1965 p/n available from GM at that time when ordering a replacement wheel? .....

James -- checking the various P&A catalogs, seems that '63-64 (in spite of what Dick correctly says about availability during '63 production -- GM parts was only satisying a demand from the '63 owners); #3852522 [assume chrome cone, no gray paint between fins] was available at least until July '65 because it still lists. In same catalog, for the '65 MY, they show # 3868768. In the Oct '66 catalog, shows for '63-65 the ...768 # [assume chrome cone, gray between fins], and for the 1966 MY shows #3877236 [assume brushed cone]. Same in Oct '67 catalog. Same in July 1969 catalog. Jump forward to Jan 1970 and catalog shows '63-66 as the ...236 #.

Parts history says the '63-4 # 3852522 was replaced by #3868768 by Nov 1965, which allows for the 4-27-65 example you quote, with no gray between spokes.

My thinking is that as inventory was depleted, the center cone, chrome or brushed, took predominance over the color between the fins. Must have figured you could paint if desired.

[Philip C.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Hi Dick could you please tell us how you came up with that statement. I have never seen written comformation of any kind to back up that statement. Phil 8063

[Clark K.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

I am looking to purchase a 65 coupe from the original owner. It has knock-off wheels from a 64. They are written up on the dealer sales contract as being taken off a left over 64. How would these be judged?

John, I own a '65 coupe that has Western repro KO wheels. A former owner added side exhaust and shot clear over the Rally Red lacquer. So, I have suffered huge originality "points hits" of these three things at two flight judging meets. The 1965 JG does not state that there are date codes for original Kelsey-Hayes KO wheels. If you use '64 wheels that have been painted to match the 1965 configuration, do not accept an originality deduction. Judges should be going by the JG without "making stuff up". Or, change the 1965 JG.

[Paul J.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Hi Dick could you please tell us how you came up with that statement. I have never seen written comformation of any kind to back up that statement. Phil 8063

Dick did'nt "come up" with this statement. I thought that it was an accepted fact. Page 70 of the JG explicitly states that (in bold letters) "There is no known documentation of any original 1963 factory equiped model with original cast aluminum "Knock Off Wheels"". I know that this might not be correct, and there was also some confusion about it in Noland's book, but it seems that the consensus is that KO's were not installed (or at least not delivered) on 63's. There is also a lot about it in the archives.

Post #13 & Post #15
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...963+knock+offs

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...963+knock+offs

There are several others also.

Paul

[John R.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Can anyone tell me if the centers are painted or not on a 64 KO?? I think the only two options I have seen or read about are paint them light grey/silver OR leave them bare/unpainted. Which is correct?? Cited Dobbins book above, confused.... If paint is correct where can I buy the correct color?

Thanks.

[John R.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Wayne, I think I missed my answer....Your post says no grey paint....correct?

[Dick W.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Thanks for the clarification Paul

[John R.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

And, forgot to add, that would mean the Dobbins Vette Vues Fact book is incorrect when he indicated "silver"?????

[Philip C.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Dick did'nt "come up" with this statement. I thought that it was an accepted fact. Page 70 of the JG explicitly states that (in bold letters) "There is no known documentation of any original 1963 factory equiped model with original cast aluminum "Knock Off Wheels"". I know that this might not be correct, and there was also some confusion about it in Noland's book, but it seems that the consensus is that KO's were not installed (or at least not delivered) on 63's. There is also a lot about it in the archives.

Post #13 & Post #15
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...963+knock+offs

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...963+knock+offs

There are several others also.

Paul

Hi Paul, glad you jumped in and I see Dick had "NOTHING" to add. So there is nothing in writing from GM or anywhere else? The JM has pages of errors and peoples minds are made up about these wheels and clearly dont want to change their opinions. I have "friday nite news letters" to dealers FROM GM dated Sept 1962 telling them about the wheel availability. I have the FIA paper work from Zora also 1962, showing the two bar ko wheels. I have the paper work from GM showing the option change for the ko wheels with Z06 option only, to them becoming available as a separate option, dated Dec 17 1962. The Corvette News article in vol 6 # 3 page 12 backs this up. The aim assy manual May 1962 shows the part number changes from gear drive to pin drive, it also shows the jacking instructions for the Z06 cars with ko wheels. SO why would they add that change if the wheels were not available? (as you know the changes could have happened prior to or later than the engineering change dates) I have a photo a '63 non fuel car racing in May '63 with two bar kos on it, a no name racer, who I am currently looking for. I spoke to Delmo Johnson he TOLD ME a '63 silver coupe was delivered to HIS dealership with the kos on it from the factory. Also, John D has told people over the years HE saw a '63 on a new car transport truck at the Chevy dealer around the corner from his house. I have shipper copies showing ko's, and YES they have a symbol next to it, the symbol we believe tells us that the wheels were not available at that time of production, but I have not seen every Z06 copy. I think the wheels were available in small groups from time to time throughout production when engineering released them. All the wheels gear drive, pin drive and hardware pieces are located in the parts books. If the counter had them, so did production. SO... "There is no known documentation of any original 1963 factory equipped model with original cast aluminum "Knock Off Wheels"", Considering the information I have, SHOW ME (GM's) proof that '63 Corvettes were not equipped, delivered or available with original cast aluminum ko wheels from the factory. Over to you guys!!

-Phil 8063..P.S.... I have MORE info and I am sure there is more out there!

SO LETS END THESE MYTHS ONCE AND FOR ALL!

[Philip C.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Sorry aim manual date was 1963 not 1962 Phil 8063

[Paul J.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

Phil, it appears that the documentation that you have supports the fact that GM offerred these wheels in 63, and I don't think that is in contention here. But we all know the issue with porosity of the castings. What you need is the correspondence between GM and KH discussing the problem and when KH was going to fix it. Maybe I'm wrong, but would'nt GM continue to promote/develop/change these wheels even if they were'nt immediately available from the supplier? The idea here is that GM viewed the delay as temporary. KH probably said "we're working on it, and we'll have them to you next month" (and the next month...and the next month...).

Something that is conspicuously absent from any discussions is someone having a wheel stamped in model year 63. If these exist and can be confirmed, then there is your "proof".

Paul

[Philip C.]

Re: 65 Coupe w/ 64 knock-offs

[QUOTE=Paul Jordan (49474);604559]Phil, it appears that the documentation that you have supports the fact that GM offerred these wheels in 63, and I don't think that is in contention here. But we all know the issue with porosity of the castings. What you need is the correspondence between GM and KH discussing the problem and when KH was going to fix it. Maybe I'm wrong, but would'nt GM continue to promote/develop/change these wheels even if they were'nt immediately available from the supplier? The idea here is that GM viewed the delay as temporary. KH probably said "we're working on it, and we'll have them to you next month" (and the next month...and the next month...).
Something that is conspicuously absent from any discussions is someone having a wheel stamped in model year 63. If these exist and can be confirmed, then there is your "proof".

Paul[/QUOTE]