HELP! is this body stencil right

[Gary B.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

Jerry,

I don't know if the date contained in the stencil changed daily or not.

The '66 TIM&JG says "the date the frame is pulled from inventory is marked in grease pencil with the frame part number and additional information stenciled in white paint..." This implies to me that even if the stencil contained the date, there would also be a date hand-written in grease pencil. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me if the date was already included in the stencil information.

I think this is one of those things were you can't win with different judges. Some judges may say the TIM&JG isn't clear and there should be no date in grease pencil once GM started including the date in the stencil and other judges will read the TIM&JG and say there always should be a date in grease pencil, since that's what the TIM&JG says.

Gary

[Gerard F.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

Gary,

On my 67, I looked for that grease penciled date, and it was not there.

However in taking a closer look through my photo's, I'll change my opinion of the stenciled date to 6-26-67. Take a close look at this picture and you will see the remnants of a full date to the day:



I previously thought that the date was 6-20-67, but it is an AO Smith body with a body build date of 6-19 (K-19). With travel from AO Smith that seems too soon.

And the engine assembly date stamped on the pad was 0626 which was a Monday.

I just wonder if it is possible that the frame was pulled on the same day that the engine was stamped. Finally assembly of my car by the numbers was June 29, 1967.

What do you think.

[Gary B.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

Jerry,

Unless you can get your friends from CSI to do some digital magic by tweaking the frequency spectrum, I think you're never going to be 100% certain of the date. Maybe the date shows up better in real life, but based on the photo I would't swear to anything in a court of law.

Gary

[Domenic T.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

Gerald,
I see that, I wish that I at least would have written down my #s. I primed my body before I took it off the frame and epoxy primed over the #s by accident when the paper fell out that protected them.
I think I will have to re-order my stencil with the date as you have. As i understand it, if the date is not on the stencil, it needs to be on the frame with a crayon?
I don't know why the 33 is there instead of the GC?

DOM

[Gary B.]

Body stencil & date

... As i understand it, if the date is not on the stencil, it needs to be on the frame with a crayon?

DOM

That makes sense to me, but I'm not sure there a consensus on that and certainly that's not what the TIM&JG says.

Gary

[John H.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

As i understand it, if the date is not on the stencil, it needs to be on the frame with a crayon?

Dom -

The hand-scrawled crayon "pull date" doesn't appear on '67 frames. The painted stencil numbers were applied to the frame at the A.O. Smith frame plant across the river in Granite City, Illinois.

[Domenic T.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

Dom -

The hand-scrawled crayon "pull date" doesn't appear on '67 frames. The painted stencil numbers were applied to the frame at the A.O. Smith frame plant across the river in Granite City, Illinois.

John,
Are you thinking that this is what I need to put on the frame?

DOM

[Gary S.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

On my web site, I have two pages of frame stencils, C1 to C3. Here is my take on the 66 and 67 stencils.

I think the factory intended to end the use of crayon dates with late 66 cars....see picture below 66 vin 25232. I have three examples of 66 frames with stenciled dates of 6/24 to 7/27.

As for 67's, I have pictures of several original frame stencils spread from early to late vin's, many from cars I have owned. I have never seen a crayon date on a 67. Maybe someone has and can provide a picture.

It appears the stencil typists were all over the place in 67 with what they stenciled on the frame beyond the "196" and "200" part numbers. Original stencils have shown the following to be true and thus "typical??"

1. The "196" number and "200" number should be there and upside down.
2. The "200" number is generally closest to the ground, but examples exist where that is reversed
3. Most likely a "lot" number of 2 digits appeared after the "200" part number, but might be missing. The judging manual says it begins with "2" but sources say it should be between 30 and 34.
4. Some did not have a date stenciled at all
5. If dated, the date may have appeared on either part number line
6. Dates had generally had hyphens stenciled between numbers (example: 1-27-67), but may not have had any hypens or spaces (example 127)
7. Some had a month and day only (1-27 or 127)
8. Some had a month-day-2 digit year stenciled (these all seem to have a hyphen or period in use (example: 1-27-67)
9. The "GC" should be there but may be on either part number line. It may be completely missing too.

Judging the 67 frame: Judging anything other than the two part numbers is going out on a limb in my opinion, unless something appears that has never been seen...thus not typical.

Pictures below in order: 66 #25916, 67 #1211, 67 #10522, 67 #19599

Stencil vendors sell the date stencil separate, but you are spending money you don't have to most likely.

If anyone cares to agree or disagree with this, please have at it.

If you have an original stencil, I would be glad to put it on my web site for all to see and learn from. A vin would be nice and I will post your name as owner if you want. Email me direct: gvettn@gmail.com

Gary

[Gary B.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

On my web site, I have two pages of frame stencils, C1 to C3. Here is my take on the 66 and 67 stencils.

I think the factory intended to end the use of crayon dates with late 66 cars....see picture below 66 vin 25232. I have three examples of 66 frames with stenciled dates of 6/24 to 7/27.

Gary

Gary,

Do you think the factory still applied crayon dates even when the stencil contained the date on '66 model year cars with late build dates?

Gary

[Domenic T.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

Gary,
That sure says a lot. You did a lot of research I see.

I am not strong on the #'s part which seems to be MUCH more work than the mechanical for me. The body work just takes time. If I spent as much time working on the car as I do trying to get the nuts,bolts, and #'s right I would have been done a long time ago.

I does feel good to help in the areas that you are strong in and the only #'s I can coment on are the ones on the parts that I believe to be original on my car as it was wrecked with low milage when I purchased it in 1971 and there was no reason to adjust the milage on the spedo to get more when selling the car.

A little off the subject:
But when I was a mechanic, the used car people would have a spedo removed on a high milage car, then give it to me saying that it was a replacement from the bone yard and it needed to read............

That was a comon practice that made a lot of money for them. A crime that they got away with then. Now they must be making spedo's better because they don't break like they used to.

From what I gather I can put this stencil on my 1967 frame.

DOM

DOM

[Gary S.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

I have not seen it and I doubt it as it would be a time waster. If someone has seen it, hope they speak up.

Gary,

Do you think the factory still applied crayon dates even when the stencil contained the date on '66 model year cars with late build dates?

Gary

[Gary B.]

Grease pencil date + stencil date; unlikely IMO

I have not seen it and I doubt it as it would be a time waster. If someone has seen it, hope they speak up.

Gary,

If there ever were any cases of a handwritten date in addition to the date in the stencil, I would sure like to see an original example as well. I doubt that things that wasted time on the assembly line for no reason were done all that often.

Gary

[Cecil L.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

The stencil date was not a late 66 thing.....my 66 L-72 car body assembly date C12, build date 11-13-65 had the date 11-10-GC incorporated into the frame stencil like the 67's. I could find no sign of a hand written crayon date on the frame although I did find crayon shim marks.
More pics of my frame stencil and others here:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?t=60007

[Gary S.]

Re: HELP! is this body stencil right

Cecil...thanks for that correction on 66 frame stenciling. That info was in the 2008 thread on this topic and I missed it. It appears Sept 20, 1965 was a known handwritten date (factory picture in Noland's book) and now you and another person show a stencil date of Nov 10, 1965 as the earliest known stencil date on frames? Anyone know of anything earlier?

The stencil date was not a late 66 thing.....my 66 L-72 car body assembly date C12, build date 11-13-65 had the date 11-10-GC incorporated into the frame stencil like the 67's. I could find no sign of a hand written crayon date on the frame although I did find crayon shim marks.
More pics of my frame stencil and others here:
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?t=60007