Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

[Jim W.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

HOLY FLAMING BUCKETS OF JOY ! This square peg has finally found the square hole, and the electricity to the lamp is finally on. Thank God this idiot has come to the most realistic common sense conclusion. Something everyone else has known for ten years of this stupid and costly program manned by grafters and idiots.

I don't think I can tolerate this overdone conclusion by Mr. Gore. What's next on this mans endless environmentalist game-page? Perhaps he will invent another internet or waterless coffee or some other useless project. I have a VERY hard time with people like Mr. Al Gore and Mr. Ralph Nader. These people couldn't lead a horde of ants to a open jar of honey, much less be a spokesmen for what is best for this country. Fortunately the wonder of the democratic process allows the rational of us to make sure he never is hired to do anymore damage than already committed.

This whole MTBE/ Ethanol Oxygenate experiments conducted by money funneled through foolish but good intent organizations might be willing to look at a better avenue for a equal compound. Sorry Rant over. Thank you for your patience.

[Jerry G.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

Good grief! Oxygenates are needed to complete the combustion process. MTBE was used for years but was a toxic poison that was leaching into water supplies. It was banned and ethanol was substituted. 15 years ago one of my companies owned about 70% of the US production capacity of ethanol. We ran the economics and realized this stuff would never be a economic break even given the projected price of motor fuel. We sold the business to Archers Daniels Middleton. They were not worried about economics, they had the lobbyist funnel money to the right people in congress and the subsidies flowed. Energy is subsidized by tax dollars to price energy below it's real market value...this leads to food prices which are also subsidized to rise because we are taking food and turning it into motor fuel.. so we subsidize food with tax dollars. The lobbyists and the members of congress get rich. Hell of a system. I'd sure like to see some of that capitalism stuff working in our country.

[Duke W.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

People still think the United States is a "free market economy."

HA!!!

If Gore really wants to come clean he needs to admit that the stupid movie he made - you know, the one that won the Joseph Geobbels Award for best full length proganda film from the Motion Picture Academy - is a fraud.

Duke

[Thomas O.]

Re: Brazil ethanol

How about a few ideas on the Brazilian fuel situation- sugar cane & switch grass as a source of ethanol. NOW don't get all over my bottom cause I asked a bit of a question. I don't use ethanol unless that is all that is avaliable. I got chewed by big Terry last time even after stating clearly that I didn't use ethanol!!! Tom Olson 73 and 06

[Jim W.]

Re: Brazil ethanol

How about a few ideas on the Brazilian fuel situation- sugar cane & switch grass as a source of ethanol. NOW don't get all over my bottom cause I asked a bit of a question. I don't use ethanol unless that is all that is avaliable. I got chewed by big Terry last time even after stating clearly that I didn't use ethanol!!! Tom Olson 73 and 06

This is civil conversation, my problem is with ethanol. It's low flash point and the cost "For Us in North America" makes it more useless than say it's use in Venezuela or Argentina where the sugar cane is used and they have a great deal of it. I suppose if it offered any real benefit we would use it. But I believe if I'm not wrong, Ethanol for us is just not fit for our ecomomy as it's milage in very poor. I understand that the EPA is going to raise the content in our Gasoline from 10% to 15% is a sign of how criss-crossed our government is. The EPA on one hand wants to increase the ethanol content to 15% despite it's going to reduce the MPG of all gasoline powered vehicles, yet on the other hand the very same agency want auto manufactures to produce vehicles with much greater MPG ? I'm left trying to find the logical side of this decision ! What exactly does the EPA want ?

[Dick W.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

Cellulosic ethanol or bio mass materials used to make it, make a whole lot more sense than starch ethanol (made from corn) Switch grass and sugar cane produce more feed stock per acre than corn. Plus, depending on the way it is process, starch ethanol may or may not reduce emissions where as Cellulosic ethanol can reduce greenhouse gases from gasoline as much as 85%.

I am not smart enough to figure out if starch ethanol is a break even proposition in the overall scheme of things. From what I understand the energy inputs required to manufacture starch ethanol almost equal the output of energy. Plus the 3% or so reduction in fuel mileage, the inability to transport it via pipeline (has to be trucked), where is the benefit when it is all said and done? Besides for corn growers and companies like ADM. The cost of corn has increased by a very large percentage due to the use for manufacturing ethanol. This cost also has been passed on to the protein producers, such as chicken, pork, and beef producers.

The foolhardiness of this whole mess has my head spinning

[Domenic T.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

You know it's funny how they change their minds!
I thought there was a law against driving while using alcohol? I see them push that every holiday weekend and season.

DOM

[John D.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

You guys better be careful what you say about algore. He'll turn off your internet you know. He invented it and can do pretty much whatever he wants with it.

Now That's funny Mike.

[Jerry G.]

Re: Brazil ethanol

This is civil conversation, my problem is with ethanol. It's low flash point and the cost "For Us in North America" makes it more useless than say it's use in Venezuela or Argentina where the sugar cane is used and they have a get deal of it. I suppose if it offered any real benefit we would use it. But I believe if I'm not wrong, Ethanol for us is just not fit for our ecomomy as it's milage in very poor. I understand that the EPA is going to raise the content in our Gasoline from 10% to 15% is a sign of how criss-crossed our government is. The EPA on one hand wants to increase the ethanol content to 15% despite it's going to reduce the MPG of all gasoline powered vehicles, yet on the other hand the very same agency want auto manufactures to produce vehicles with much greater MPG ? I'm left trying to find the logical side of this decision ! What exactly does the EPA want ?

Milage is computed by the EPA based on a standard gallon of fuel with a known composition and BTU content. So improvments that are made are real. Ethanol does not have the BTU content that motor fuel does, therefore miles per gallon are less. The south American countries that are using it to any extent are doing so becasue they had a hard currency problem 15 years ago so they couldn't pay for the oil in dollars. If we don't quit subsidizing farmers and don't allow fuel to be priced at its real cost we may have the same problem at some point.

[John D.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

Ethanol is probably the worst thing to ever happen to our old cars.
Lately though the problems have multiplied as old father time has taken a toll on the rubber parts. Not to mention the fact that ethanol may be responsbile for crappy idles and response. Can't blame everything on cams you know.
Heard Gores speech on the news last night. Then saw it in the morning paper. But it does make you wonder why all of the sudden the rederick aka rhetoric came about. Makes you wonder what the global warming dude is up to???
Try some good 100LL in your old car if you want to see it fly low. But don't tell anyone as it's not legal.

[Roger W.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

Al Gore and Goldman Sacks were planning on making big bucks with a carbon exchange market. Now that man made global warming has been exposed as a hoax and the Republicans will be in charge of Congress, the carbon exchange colapsed.

[Duke W.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

Yeah. I read about that and had a good chuckle. Unfortunately another one will probably start up for California

Yesterday Los Angeles Co. prosecutor Steve Cooley conceeded the state AG election to San Francisco prosector Kamala Harris, who makes Pelosi look like a conservative.

CA is in deep do-do.

Duke

[Jack H.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

Bingo, we have lift off! It IS the economics ($/BTU).

Brazil got away with it due to their 'special' situation: virtually no oil reserves, LOTS of untilled land, population essentially 'clumped' in a handful of large costal cities (simplifies distribution channel from farm to refinery) AND prior government mandates for economic/defense reasons.

We're not in the same boat. We share some similarities (untilled land availability), but our refining centers are appreciably spread from the farm. Without a dedicated pipeline system (MAJOR capital investment), the basic source cost + transporation in costs are against ethanol being competitive with fossil fuel that enjoys a mature distribution system.

The tree hugger's solution is to tax conventional petrol to inflate its cost at the pump to even the playing field. That's an anti-economic approach...

[Terry M.]

Re: Gore actually admits that corn-based fuel ethanol "is not good policy"

Jack you keep mentioning the "tree huggers" as being behind fuel ethanol. I don't believe that is the major motivation. I think it is the agribusiness lobby. Farmers and alcohol producers are the beneficiaries of this boondoggle. Not so much the small family farm -- which almost doesn't exist any more -- but the huge conglomerate owned farms that have been spawned by ADM and Monsanto (sorry Joan - a spade is a spade) and the like.

There may be an unholy alliance between the tree huggers and agribusiness for this deal, but they are usually at odds with each other.

[Thomas O.]

I brag about my gas mileage

I like to brag about my gas mileage as much as the next car nut. Therefore, I do not use ethanol unless there is no choice. However, to close our mind to ethanol may not be a good choice. Research on Cellulosic based ethanol is ongoing at several universities. Yes, there are many problems such as transportation. Certainly use of ethanol in earlier vehicles is a huge concern. To come to the conclusion that we should stop all thinking /research --I don't know if we have reached that point.

It seems that we are not ready to conclude that our oil reserves are endless. Can we say that an ever increasing population should go using petroleum products and forget about conservation and alternative sources??????? I will trust Scientific Research every time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tom 73 and an 06