Ethanol again

[John D.]

If your pride and joy is painted with lacquer be very careful when you are filling it up with ethanol.
If you spill or splash any on the paint immediately wash it off with water.
Failure to do so may result in stains and discoloration. Don't just wipe it off with a hand towel as that won't help.

Soon we are supposed to get an added dose of ethanol in the fuel. Raising to 15%. Down the road if they keep raising the amount you can expect ethanol to act about the same as spilling brake fluid on your paint.
Gives us something to look forward to.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Ethanol again

Thanks for the reminder John. I go through a ritual on every fill which includes having a cup of water handy. I have one of those rubber flaps which helps some, and I also add Max 2000 additive from a quart bottle. No matter how careful you are, and I am, you can't help but splash at least a small drop or two. I point the nozzle on an angle and keep it under the neck as long as possible. I wonder if it is any better with your SWC than on my convertible. There seems to be more angle on the filler neck. Do you fill right up to the bottom of the neck?

I'm talking C-2's, for those in Rio Linda.

Stu Fox

[Jim T.]

Re: Ethanol again

Thanks for the information John. My 68 and 70 both still have lacquer. I usually only put in enough gas to have a half tank for my local use and keep fresh gas in the tank. This also allows more gas nozzle in the tank during fueling to avoid external splash.

[Paul H.]

Re: Ethanol again

I have always wrapped a large towel around the filler area to protect the paint. Works well.

[Alexander C.]

Re: Ethanol again

Well said! The original black paint under my fuel door is quickly going away. About 15% of the surface area you can see plain fiberglass now. It's even getting so bad it's affecting the original markings to the left of the filler neck. I need to take a bunch of hi-res pictures before it's gone forever I guess. I hardly ever spill a drop too, this is just from wiping clean after all the years of other people spilling gas there...

[Jim W.]

Re: Ethanol again

I said it once and I'll say it again, Ethanol is nothing but a sham type of scam. It doesn't do a thing for the environment, produces poor milage and is corrosive to the fuel system of virtually any engines built today and all of the pre 1995 powerplants. As the EPA is one of the most powerful of all government agencies,they are sold on this "Corn fuel" despite the fact that it reduces a car's milage on one hand and on the other they are demanding better MPG from the auto manufactures. It's retarded and stupid, "Which do you want, better MPG or what you contend is a cleaner environment and air ?" The nations farmers are the only winners with this crap. After there is a flood of engine compartment fires they'll do the Washinton two step and reverse their position, or not ?

[Ronald L.]

Re: Ethanol again

No. Monsanto and ADM don't care, only thing they want is to sell more chemicals and genetically modified seed.

[John D.]

Re: Ethanol again

If there are any SACC members here read the latest issue of "On Solid Ground". page 25.
Concerns the E15 . "Consumers will not see E15 at the pump any time soon. etc etc. "There is no obligation that gas retailers market the fuel. In fact, some retailers oppose the fuel over concern that they could be held liable if E15 damages a vehicle".
Source: SEMA Action Network Newsletter.
Thanks Ken Amrick. Ken is an outstanding member of the Pittsburgh chapter and also the editor of On Solid Ground.
Someone that knows how to scan articles and put them here please give it a try.
This past year I have had more complaints about fuel injections leaking, gas tank problems, fuel pump problems, paint problems, etc all because of the 10% ethanol. Yet few believed me when I wrote the article on it a couple of years ago titled Ethanol and Your Fuel Injection.
Be careful as several car owners have had fires.
Sad thing is the concentrate is added at the distributors before they dump it in the tankers. Would be nice to own a tanker full of good 93 octane that didn't receive the E10. Meanwhile how do you know it's only 10%?

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol again

Ten percent is the current statutory ethanol limit. As stated, 15 percent will be "optional", and I doubt if many retailers will add another pump to dispense 15 percent enthanol blends.

Some claim their gasoline has more than 10 percent ethanol, which I doubt. There is no financial incentive for distributors to "cheat" because ethanol is more expensive than gasoline, both on a volume and energy basis, and there are substantial civil fines for blenders that don't meet the fuel specifications for their distribution areas.

Of course, blending errors may sometimes occur, but they are likely rare.

Duke

[George J.]

Re: Ethanol again

If there are any SACC members here read the latest issue of "On Solid Ground". page 25.
Concerns the E15 . "Consumers will not see E15 at the pump any time soon. etc etc. "There is no obligation that gas retailers market the fuel. In fact, some retailers oppose the fuel over concern that they could be held liable if E15 damages a vehicle".
Source: SEMA Action Network Newsletter.
Thanks Ken Amrick. Ken is an outstanding member of the Pittsburgh chapter and also the editor of On Solid Ground.
Someone that knows how to scan articles and put them here please give it a try.
This past year I have had more complaints about fuel injections leaking, gas tank problems, fuel pump problems, paint problems, etc all because of the 10% ethanol. Yet few believed me when I wrote the article on it a couple of years ago titled Ethanol and Your Fuel Injection.
Be careful as several car owners have had fires.
Sad thing is the concentrate is added at the distributors before they dump it in the tankers. Would be nice to own a tanker full of good 93 octane that didn't receive the E10. Meanwhile how do you know it's only 10%?

John,
We've had 10% ethanol here in Michigan since before I rebuilt my unit about 8 years ago. I used your parts, and advise, and have had NO problems with the unit after getting it dialed in correctly. That includes drivability. Yes, it needs the proper starting proceedure and to keep the rev's up for a few seconds after a hot restart, but that's it.
My only problems with fuel pumps are the springs that break. I have no doubt that these complaints you are receiving are due to other issues, like plain old age, non use, crappy, dated plug wires, etc. I don't know about gas tanks, though.

George

[Paul Y.]

Re: Ethanol again

I too have not had much trouble with my FI. I have put over 8000 miles on it in the last 19 months. I did'nt take your advise and rebuilt it with the GM style parts that I had that were NOS. I had a bit of trouble with the sending unit in the tank but I think that it was due to age. I repaired it with parts off another old sending unit I had. I also replaced the fuel pump that was leaking, but I also think that it was due to age. I installed an NOS fuel pump that I had and it seems to be working fine. The only thing that I noticed was how dry the fuel meter was in the needle-seat and float area. The ethanol seems to be drying that area up and giving no lubricant to the moving parts. I have been running non-ethanal gas for the last 3-4 months when I can get it and it runs and starts so much better. We have a local station in Lakewood that sells it, but I am unable to do that on a road trip. I am going to try some marvel mystery oil in the gas when I fill up and see if that makes a difference. So in conclusion, I don't seem to have too much problem with the fuel and what I have had seems to be related to the age of the parts. I am going to take mine out and drive it today and tomorrow as it is in the middle sixties and sunny. Save the wave. Paul

[Stuart F.]

Re: Ethanol again

If I heard right on a NASCAR program this morning in SPEED, they were lamenting about the challenges they face in the 2011 season with the advent of E15 across the board - every series. The other related item was that the change to Fuel Injection LATER in the season. So, they will be starting with carburetors. They described how they will be cutting their "over the wall" teams to 6 members due to the elimination of the catch can man. That function is now more critical due to the possibility of water contamination dictating a closed fuel venting system built into the fuel cans themselves (not a new technology in racing by any means). They do expect more power (?), but less fuel economy which means they throw away their old notes.

Perhaps, as in automotive history, racing will once again provide the forum for inovation regarding this crap.

Stu Fox

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol again

Theroretically more power might be available because a 15 percent ethanol blend has about 4.5 percent oxygen by mass, but it will reduce fuel mileage by about the same amount, so...

The move to fuel injection - even if it's a simple throttle body type system - in place of the four-barrel carburetor with existing manifolds makes sense as it will be much easier to tune A/F ratio and might somewhat offset the loss of fuel mileage from the ethanol fuel blend.

Does anyone know any details about the FI system? Clem?

I don't think water absorbtion would be a problem since these cars don't have old fuel sitting around in therm for weeks or months, and the fuel they use is fresh. But it makes sense from a safety standpoint to have a closed venting system that precludes fuel spills that can potentially cause a fire.

Duke

[Ronald L.]

Re: Ethanol again

That is correct, I mentioned that in our other earlier thread on this subject to the extent I suspect Sunoco already has ROH in there, to me I can smell it.

Torco - I sent them an email to find out, I do not think so from the smell.

[Jim T.]

Re: Ethanol again

I too have not had much trouble with my FI. I have put over 8000 miles on it in the last 19 months. I did'nt take your advise and rebuilt it with the GM style parts that I had that were NOS. I had a bit of trouble with the sending unit in the tank but I think that it was due to age. I repaired it with parts off another old sending unit I had. I also replaced the fuel pump that was leaking, but I also think that it was due to age. I installed an NOS fuel pump that I had and it seems to be working fine. The only thing that I noticed was how dry the fuel meter was in the needle-seat and float area. The ethanol seems to be drying that area up and giving no lubricant to the moving parts. I have been running non-ethanal gas for the last 3-4 months when I can get it and it runs and starts so much better. We have a local station in Lakewood that sells it, but I am unable to do that on a road trip. I am going to try some marvel mystery oil in the gas when I fill up and see if that makes a difference. So in conclusion, I don't seem to have too much problem with the fuel and what I have had seems to be related to the age of the parts. I am going to take mine out and drive it today and tomorrow as it is in the middle sixties and sunny. Save the wave. Paul

Paul before going on a road trip you can check out www.pure-gas.org for ethanal free gas station locations.