Please help a rookie restorer..

[Domenic T.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

John,
I have the same 67, greenwood green but green interior. all the rest but side pipes.
I put a new front end on it because it was a total wreck and only worth 1700.00 if in good condition back in 1971.
I am doing a frame up also and was told that my car was a FAKE, and a TRIBUTE to 1967 vettes here.
That inspired me to make it the most gourgious, long lasting 1967 around with a paint job that will turn heads and body lines the way they were INTENDED to be, NO ripples, even gaps, and a glass finish. Yes it will be judged, every time it is seen, and most importantly by YOU.
Do it the way the factory was supposed to, forget the rust, runs, and other mistakes that were made. I'm sure the forman didn't give raises to those that were sloppy with weather stripping glue or shot runs on the rims, not to mention forgetting to paint the bellhousing all the way down.

I commend the ones that have an original car and in the shape that it came out of the factory. but If you want to be crafty, put the front end on just like the factory did and call it a 2nd owner car, no accidents and driven by an old lady. It would be easy to be dishonest. I was honest and got a bashing. (MINES BETTER THAN YOURS).
There are some real corvette lovers that appreciate the fact that I saved mine from the junk yard and that it's great to bring a piece of art back to life again. AMEN

DOM

[John M.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

John,
I have the same 67, greenwood green but green interior. all the rest but side pipes.
I put a new front end on it because it was a total wreck and only worth 1700.00 if in good condition back in 1971.
I am doing a frame up also and was told that my car was a FAKE, and a TRIBUTE to 1967 vettes here.
That inspired me to make it the most gourgious, long lasting 1967 around with a paint job that will turn heads and body lines the way they were INTENDED to be, NO ripples, even gaps, and a glass finish. Yes it will be judged, every time it is seen, and most importantly by YOU.
Do it the way the factory was supposed to, forget the rust, runs, and other mistakes that were made. I'm sure the forman didn't give raises to those that were sloppy with weather stripping glue or shot runs on the rims, not to mention forgetting to paint the bellhousing all the way down.

I commend the ones that have an original car and in the shape that it came out of the factory. but If you want to be crafty, put the front end on just like the factory did and call it a 2nd owner car, no accidents and driven by an old lady. It would be easy to be dishonest. I was honest and got a bashing. (MINES BETTER THAN YOURS).
There are some real corvette lovers that appreciate the fact that I saved mine from the junk yard and that it's great to bring a piece of art back to life again. AMEN

DOM

Dom, I'm getting the same feelings from some members who I guess they think they know everything about every vin number ever produced! I know the previous owner who passed away a few years back. I have his original bill of sale. The car has been view by many NCRS members who are suppose to be Jacksonville Fl resident experts and they could only find a few the front clips on the firewall not be original. All ##'s and dates have been verified so I do know what I have and IS NOT a FAKE in anyway. If anyone would like the vin and trim tag #s I'd be glad for them to prove otherwise. DOM I'm like you not trying to outdo someone I'm just trying to do the car the right way and have been hoping for some help from guys who have already been down this path.

DOM if you have any restore pics that you could share I would appreciate the help. I've never restored a C2 before and I can tell you I don't claim to be any kind of expert. Ive been having a heck of a time trying to get the tele scoping steeringg parts back together. No papers account for all the parts even the 2 papers written on this web site help but they don't account for all the plastic parts inside. thanks again DOM its all starting to become clear.

[Michael W.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

Sounds like you guys have a chip on your shoulder, or just thin skin. If you ask for opinions, expect to get them in all sizes and colours. Ignore the ones you don't like or agree with and move on.

[John M.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

Sounds like you guys have a chip on your shoulder, or just thin skin. If you ask for opinions, expect to get them in all sizes and colours. Ignore the ones you don't like or agree with and move on.

NO CHIP! but it just seems everybody thinks you are FULL of SHI_ when you tell them what you have. I expected opinions across the board not prove you have those options!

[Michael J.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

Very interesting thread of opinions. It is all up to the owner as to what they like. But, wanting to go the NCRS judging route necessarily takes you down one path that is hard and expensive to change down the road. I had my '67 L71 done for judging, but now that the Top Flight stuff is over with, I don't plan to have it judged again and will pass it down to my kids as I drive it very frequently. Thus many things have to be changed to make it a great driver vs. NCRS TF. Having now made most of those changes I am very happy, but I didn't have to change the paint, it already was Rally Red, like I wanted to begin with. The paint is a very personal choice, if you really don't like the Goodwood Green (I must admit I don't), then paint it what you want, BC/CC or whatever and just enjoy the judging, whatever happens. If you and your kids could live with the Green, it sets you up nicely for judging. Just my 2 cents.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

Sounds like you guys have a chip on your shoulder, or just thin skin. If you ask for opinions, expect to get them in all sizes and colours. Ignore the ones you don't like or agree with and move on.

Michael,
Unfortunatly a few members went out of their way trying to put a chip on my shoulder but it didn't work. It did show me that we have a few with a chip on their shoulders. I didn't ask for an opinion, I was asking for HELP and got an opinion that had nothing to do with my thread. Would any one in their right minds scrap a vette because the vin tags were taken by the State to avoid future theft of a vette?

DOM

[John M.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

Very interesting thread of opinions. It is all up to the owner as to what they like. But, wanting to go the NCRS judging route necessarily takes you down one path that is hard and expensive to change down the road. I had my '67 L71 done for judging, but now that the Top Flight stuff is over with, I don't plan to have it judged again and will pass it down to my kids as I drive it very frequently. Thus many things have to be changed to make it a great driver vs. NCRS TF. Having now made most of those changes I am very happy, but I didn't have to change the paint, it already was Rally Red, like I wanted to begin with. The paint is a very personal choice, if you really don't like the Goodwood Green (I must admit I don't), then paint it what you want, BC/CC or whatever and just enjoy the judging, whatever happens. If you and your kids could live with the Green, it sets you up nicely for judging. Just my 2 cents.

Mike thanks thats kind of what I was hoping to get. I plan on doing just that. I will go with BC/CC I feel much better about that decision, now its just what color it will be.

If there are any NCRS judges in the jacksonville FL area and would like to see the car I would love for you to inspect it and give me any possible hits you can. The car isn't mobil yet and won't be for at least another year. Thanks

[Michael W.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

Would any one in their right minds scrap a vette because the vin tags were taken by the State to avoid future theft of a vette?

DOM

What makes you think that everyone that volunteers an opinion is in their right mind?

Remember, 50% of people are below average. Those that argue with that stat have just demonstrated which side of the line they fall on.

I couldn't give a sh*t what anybody else thinks of my toys and don't seek opinions on it accordingly. Asking for qualified help is a different subject.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

...I will go with BC/CC I feel much better about that decision, now its just what color it will be...

You sound relieved. Actually...you worried too much about the type of paint you were going to use.

IF you have the car judged, and IF you have exercised your owner right to repaint the car a different paint color than the trim tag indicates, it's a total deduct for the paint. The type of paint will be absolutely immaterial in the case of a color change. The type of paint will only become an issue if you have the original color, and then whatever type of paint is used, it has to APPEAR as factory original acrylic lacquer.

I'm actually not trying to persuade you to use Goodwood Green...I'm just clarifying the judging rule.

[John M.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

You sound relieved. Actually...you worried too much about the type of paint you were going to use.

IF you have the car judged, and IF you have exercised your owner right to repaint the car a different paint color than the trim tag indicates, it's a total deduct for the paint. The type of paint will be absolutely immaterial in the case of a color change. The type of paint will only become an issue if you have the original color, and then whatever type of paint is used, it has to APPEAR as factory original acrylic lacquer.

I'm actually not trying to persuade you to use Goodwood Green...I'm just clarifying the judging rule.

Thanks Chuck, Thats the way I plan on doing it, Goodwood green white stinger whit soft top BC/CC I did get some usefull info from this thread.

[Paul J.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

I will go with BC/CC I feel much better about that decision, now its just what color it will be.

John:

Your chassis restoration looks great. After putting all of that time, effort, and money into a "correct" chassis restoration, it would be a shame to not follow it through with the original color on the body. Just my opinion.

As far as BC/CC that's always a tough decision and both sides have good arguments. I had been looking hard at BC/CC and recently decided to go with single stage. However, now I'm leaning back the other way. At this rate, I may end up making the decision at the paint counter! Anyway, it looks like you're doing a good job, even as a "rookie restorer".

Paul

[Scott S.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

I'm actually not trying to persuade you to use Goodwood Green...I'm just clarifying the judging rule.

This raises a question that seems unclear in the JG and the Reference Manual. Can someone clarify this a bit further?

For an example, suppose John wanted to paint his 1967 Goodwood Green car Rally Red, a factory color for 1967, but which does not match his 983AA Trim Tag code. Suppose further that he does a good job of making the BC/CC appearance "consistent with factory application methods", even though the "material" used (basecoat/clearcoat) is "not consistent with factory application".

There are two categories under consideration: Body Color and Body Paint.

Body Color is worth 85 points, and would be a total deduct of all 85 points for incorrect body color (85 points lost).

Body Paint is also worth 85 points total, split between 45 points (Originality) and 40 points (Condition). Assuming the BC/CC would result in a 50% Originality deduction (22.5 points), that leaves 22.5 points, if the appearance is "consistent with factory application methods". Since this is more than 10%, then if I understand correctly, it would allow the condition of the paint to be scored. If the condition is like new, then no point deduct on condition under the Body Paint category.


In the scenario above, would a car with a Goodwood Green trim tag, but painted Rally Red, score an 85 point deduct on Body Color and a 22.5 point deduct on the Originality portion of the Body Paint category, with the following result?

Body Color:
Originality - 85 point deduct (100%)

Body Paint:
Originality - 22.5 point deduct on Originality (50%), keeps 22.5 points.
Condition - 0 point deduct on Condition, keeps 40 points.


Or does the change in body color equal an automatic 170 point deduct: 85 point deduct on Body Color, 45 point deduct on Body Paint Originality, and 40 point deduct on Body Paint Condition?

[John M.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

This raises a question that seems unclear in the JG and the Reference Manual. Can someone clarify this a bit further?

For an example, suppose John wanted to paint his 1967 Goodwood Green car Rally Red, a factory color for 1967, but which does not match his 983AA Trim Tag code. Suppose further that he does a good job of making the BC/CC appearance "consistent with factory application methods", even though the "material" used (basecoat/clearcoat) is "not consistent with factory application".

There are two categories under consideration: Body Color and Body Paint.

Body Color is worth 85 points, and would be a total deduct of all 85 points for incorrect body color (85 points lost).

Body Paint is also worth 85 points total, split between 45 points (Originality) and 40 points (Condition). Assuming the BC/CC would result in a 50% Originality deduction (22.5 points), that leaves 22.5 points, if the appearance is "consistent with factory application methods". Since this is more than 10%, then if I understand correctly, it would allow the condition of the paint to be scored. If the condition is like new, then no point deduct on condition under the Body Paint category.


In the scenario above, would a car with a Goodwood Green trim tag, but painted Rally Red, score an 85 point deduct on Body Color and a 22.5 point deduct on the Originality portion of the Body Paint category, with the following result?

Body Color:
Originality - 85 point deduct (100%)

Body Paint:
Originality - 22.5 point deduct on Originality (50%), keeps 22.5 points.
Condition - 0 point deduct on Condition, keeps 40 points.


Or does the change in body color equal an automatic 170 point deduct: 85 point deduct on Body Color, 45 point deduct on Body Paint Originality, and 40 point deduct on Body Paint Condition?

Scott thanks this is just what has been driving me crazy. One or more of you NCRS judges please chime in on scotts question. Scott I had a C# NCRS judge tell me if it looked like BC/CC they would have the owner wax a small section to prove it wasn't and if they didn't have paint on the rag it was a total deduct. Man this is worst then trying to understand golf rules...and I ve been doing that since I was 10

[John H.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

I had a C# NCRS judge tell me if it looked like BC/CC they would have the owner wax a small section to prove it wasn't and if they didn't have paint on the rag it was a total deduct. Man this is worst then trying to understand golf rules...and I ve been doing that since I was 10

John -

That judge has been asleep for a while; "rubbing for color" has been prohibited for a long time. Paint is judged solely by what it appears to be.

[Terry L.]

Re: Please help a rookie restorer..

The chassis looks great, i would like to see more pictures of your project. BTW, I vote for " original color "