Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

[Ray G.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Hello Fellow members;

The punishment should fit the crime and be exacted in accordance with other rule infractions depending on the severity.

As others have stated this punishment seems harsh.

I admit I didn't know the judging field suspension included being excluded from all other NCRS activities/TDB.

Sorry Terry, but this is the place most of us get technical data, event news, other topics like this subject. Maybe only 40 % of the members use the TDB, but they discuss what they read here with at least one other person. This board is like the party line telephones of the past.

Of course, this is just my 2 cents.
Ray

[Ronald L.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Sounds like 1978 all over again.

[Fenwick B.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I guess I'm going to be some of the "collateral damage" Terry. The way that I found out about Roy being banned was seeing the word "Banned" on his user ID, when I was looking up one of his old posts about powerglide transmissions. Roy is one of the most helpful guys on the forum, and he has never failed to answer any question that I ask about my 55. The whole C1 family will miss his input for over a year, or maybe forever.
The use of the forum has little to do with oher NCRS functions. I think that the penalty is too severe, and this is the place to talk about it, because most of the members probably have never met their board member.

[Tom M.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I think the NCRS and the judges, board are great !, my .02 cents

[Rick G.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Tom, I agree completely with you. In my original post which is referenced in Terry Destuerman's post above, I reported that Roy exhibited the same behavior last year at the San Jose National. Most of the people responding on this board and the Corvette Forum and some on this board, are chosing to ignore this. I realize that Roy admitted his mistake at Bend, but he also did the same at San Jose. By displaying total disregard for the safety of the speculators on two seperate occasions, he left the NCRS with little options. There is a system in place to help correct behavior such as this. If you don't agree with it, I suggest you contact your regional representative with your suggestions.

As mentioned many times, rules are in place for a reason. In this case the reason was safety. Where do you think this thread would go if Roy had, heaven forbid, injuried someone driving off the field while speculators were on the field? Roy knew exactly what he was doing on both occasions. I commend the NCRS for taking whatever action is necessary to protect our families and speculators.

[Ray G.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Tom, I agree completely with you. In my original post which is referenced in Terry Destuerman's post above, I reported that Roy exhibited the same behavior last year at the San Jose National. Most of the people responding on this board and the Corvette Forum and some on this board, are chosing to ignore this. I realize that Roy admitted his mistake at Bend, but he also did the same at San Jose. By displaying total disregard for the safety of the speculators on two seperate occasions, he left the NCRS with little options. There is a system in place to help correct behavior such as this. If you don't agree with it, I suggest you contact your regional representative with your suggestions.

As mentioned many times, rules are in place for a reason. In this case the reason was safety. Where do you think this thread would go if Roy had, heaven forbid, injuried someone driving off the field while speculators were on the field? Roy knew exactly what he was doing on both occasions. I commend the NCRS for taking whatever action is necessary to protect our families and speculators.

Hello Charles;
Did not know this was a repeat offense.
That certainly makes one wonder.
I agree rules are made for the greater good.
Thanks for your input.
Ray

[Gerard F.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Tom, I agree completely with you. In my original post which is referenced in Terry Destuerman's post above, I reported that Roy exhibited the same behavior last year at the San Jose National. Most of the people responding on this board and the Corvette Forum and some on this board, are chosing to ignore this. I realize that Roy admitted his mistake at Bend, but he also did the same at San Jose. By displaying total disregard for the safety of the speculators on two seperate occasions, he left the NCRS with little options. There is a system in place to help correct behavior such as this. If you don't agree with it, I suggest you contact your regional representative with your suggestions.

As mentioned many times, rules are in place for a reason. In this case the reason was safety. Where do you think this thread would go if Roy had, heaven forbid, injuried someone driving off the field while speculators were on the field? Roy knew exactly what he was doing on both occasions. I commend the NCRS for taking whatever action is necessary to protect our families and speculators.

Charles,

I wasn't going to get into this, BUT taking Roy off the TDB is a little harsh. I was at the San Jose National, as a Founders car not too far from Roy's car, and the rules were a little different, as all the judged cars, Founders, and Sportsman cars were in this big interior congested hall.

I was first told that I could take my car out but it had to be at a certain time and be back at certain time. Considering the congested hall and the difficultly of moving a car out, I just left it in place for the duration.

As you may remember, all of the cars were required to exit within a short period of time. I think my Founder's car was one of the last one's out.

So Roy broke the confusing rules then, and once again in Bend, and he is accepting the 13 month suspension from judging events. I broke the rules too, by having a smoke with him, in the no smoking zone at the car entrance to the hall.

But why is he being banned from the TDB? Seems like an overly harsh punishment, to a guy who has a lot to offer to the TDB. He taught me how to take a steering wheel off a C2 without a steering wheel puller at Tahoe in 2009. A great wealth of information, (even though he has some problems with spelling), and a great guy.

Maybe the powers to be will reinstate him to the TDB. I think he is willing to accept the 13 month suspension from judging events per the rules.

We all screw up once in a while.

[Rick G.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Jerry,

As I said in my post, if you do not agree with the punishment I suggest you voice your concerns to your regional representative. I have never said whether or not I agree with the punishment, only that I support the actions of the NCRS staff.

Frankly, I am tired of this thread and am ending my involvement with this last post. I will repeat once again that I appreciate all the NCRS does to ensure SAFETY on the judging field.

On a personal note, I will continue to teach my children and grandchildren the difference between right and wrong, to follow rules and that they can expect to be held accountable for their actions. I may be in a minority in this, but I still believe in personal integerity and accepting responsibility for ones actions.

The end!

[Greg A.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I was an early member of the CF (back when it was just "one" forum)...after reading the 8 pages of comments, I'm glad I gave it up...now I remember that opinions are like a**holes...everyone has one.

What did everyone do before Al Gore invented the internet? Sit around on a bar stool and whine to their drinking buddy?

Roy's only complaint is the ban from the TDB...so maybe he logs in as a guest for a while. Life's too short to get your shorts in a knot over this...but if you feel that strongly, vote with your wallet...it's more effective than rude comments.

[Edward B.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Would someone please be kind enough to provide a citation to the relevant portion of the NCRS rules, by-laws or whatever that govern this situation. An exact quotation (non-abridged) of the section prescribing penalties might be very enlightening and would allow this discussion to continue based upon fact, not speculation or sentiment.

[Edward M.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Would someone please be kind enough to provide a citation to the relevant portion of the NCRS rules, by-laws or whatever that govern this situation. An exact quotation (non-abridged) of the section prescribing penalties might be very enlightening and would allow this discussion to continue based upon fact, not speculation or sentiment.

I believe this is from the Sixth Edition of the JRM:
"owners prematurely removing cars from the judging field will nullify any award received and result in a 13 month suspension of the owner from any NCRS judging process".

[Ray G.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I believe this is from the Sixth Edition of the JRM:
"owners prematurely removing cars from the judging field will nullify any award received and result in a 13 month suspension of the owner from any NCRS judging process".

Hello Edward;

Thanks for posting the penalty.

Unless there is a rule infraction penalty you & others have not read or seen, it seems suspension of TDB privileges is not included in the prescribed penalty.

Ray

[Edward M.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Don't you or anybody else read the entire thread through before posting a stupid question?

See post number 15

I would comment that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

[George J.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I believe this is from the Sixth Edition of the JRM:
"owners prematurely removing cars from the judging field will nullify any award received and result in a 13 month suspension of the owner from any NCRS judging process".

They say "rules are rules" and then are too hard headed to read and understand their own rules. This clearly states that he is to be suspended from any JUDGING process. Clearly and concisely. There is no court in this land that would include the discussion board and other social activities in the ban.

And to Terry, I think this is exactly the place where issues such as this should be aired and debated.

George

[Joe C.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I would comment that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

If you, Ed Boyd or Ray Geiger had read the entire thread, you all would have seen POST # 15, where the question was already asked, yesterday at 14:38 EDT.