Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

[Jack H.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

First; I don't believe what Roy posted on the CF can be called a "RANT". He simply and humbly stated what had happened to him, and few of us would have known otherwise.

Second; For many of us old timers, a 13 month punishment could mean you will never see or hear from us again. Any and all knowledge that we can impart from our "Back in the Day" experiences will be lost from the NCRS historic data base. We will be relegated to the National Corvette Retirees Society for good.

We just lost Charlie a short while ago, and now today Tom Stanton left us. I would hate to see Roy banished for the minor indiscretions of an old Tooter.

Stu Fox

I couldn't agree more Stu. After just reading about Tom, coupled with the loss of others, this banishment of Roy from the TDB just seems silly and petty.

[Jerry W.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Who owns this rig ?....Bet most on this forumn knows right off....It's a shame we won't be seeing it for a while......NCRS has dissappointed me by inventing new rules. We've lost a FUN loving member from the forumn.

[Sander B.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Who owns this rig ?....Bet most on this forumn knows right off....It's a shame we won't be seeing it for a while......NCRS has dissappointed me by inventing new rules. We've lost a FUN loving member from the forumn.

yes its very sad ............. Roy went from Bend to Banned land

[Henry F.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

They say "rules are rules" and then are too hard headed to read and understand their own rules. This clearly states that he is to be suspended from any JUDGING process. Clearly and concisely. There is no court in this land that would include the discussion board and other social activities in the ban.

And to Terry, I think this is exactly the place where issues such as this should be aired and debated.

George

I second that!

[Ian G.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I'm going to have to chime in and say that I don't agree with the decision to ban Roy from the TDB. IMO the NCRS is shooting itself in the foot on this one. Roy is giving free advise to tons of NCRS members and supporting the paying membership and growth of this board by being a valued expert, typos, misspellings and all. The thing about Roy is I think he has about as many friends as enemies. He's very good at rubbing folks the right way, which is part of his charm I guess. I was one of the guys at the San Jose national directing traffic that Roy ignored and buzzed on by, BTW.

[Ian H.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

It looks like Roy's entire membership has been suspended, instead of only the event portion.

I'm just speculating here, but maybe there is a technical and/or logistical reason for not having TDB access while a membership is suspended. If you cancel the membership entirely, it is easier to ban someone from events, since you would not have to publish a list of people who are "not to be included" at an event (sort of like "do not accept checks from this person" at your local Kwiki Mart).

I don't know if it is possible, but there may be a way to get around the technical issue, if it exists, by modifying the log-in programming language to allow Roy to log-in to the TDB while his membership is under suspension.

[Larry T.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

It looks like Roy's entire membership has been suspended, instead of only the event portion.

I'm just speculating here, but maybe there is a technical and/or logistical reason for not having TDB access while a membership is suspended. If you cancel the membership entirely, it is easier to ban someone from events, since you would not have to publish a list of people who are "not to be included" at an event (sort of like "do not accept checks from this person" at your local Kwiki Mart).

I don't know if it is possible, but there may be a way to get around the technical issue, if it exists, by modifying the log-in programming language to allow Roy to log-in to the TDB while his membership is under suspension.

I highly doubt this is just a "technical" problem. Nice of you to offer them an out though. I also doubt any real consideration will be given to reinstating him to the TDB after all of the attention that this has gotten. It would be a shame if the powers that be dig in their heels because they can do whatever they want as opposed to doing the right thing. Time will tell.

[Jim C.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I don't really see the harm in letting Roy stay on the discussion board. I've read many, many of his posts over the last few years. There's been some good stuff from him. He also seems to be a controversial character at times - like now for instance. If driving off the judging field before he's supposed to is against the rules, particularly for safety reasons, then Roy will have to suffer the consequences of his actions. I guess that means no more events for a while. Fine. He got what he deserves. But what harm can he do sitting at his computer adding to the discussion board?

[Frederick W.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

This thread has clearly struck a nerve. I think it is because this is our hobby and enjoyment. Rules, responsibilities and punishments exist in our daily lives, and the hobby is our respite from that.
Certainly we need our rules, but they should be enforced with the spirit that this is our fun and we are all in it together. Punishment should be only as severe as absolutely necessary and should be meted out with a smile and pat on the back.
It should not be vindictive and harsh or we have lost what we want from our organization.

[Charles P.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Maybe the powers to be will reinstate him to the TDB. I think he is willing to accept the 13 month suspension from judging events per the rules.

We all screw up once in a while.

I agree with Gerry. If the rules call for banning someone from the judging process for such an infraction then "themz da rulz". But if they don't specify anything about the TDB then he must be able to participate here. If that rule later needs to include the TDB ALSO, then the directors need to change that rule. It's that simple unless of course something else is afoot here.
On the lighter side after hearing John Fitch say in Carlisle this weekend that 1953 through 1955 Corvettes were basically crap, I feel even more sorry for him having to own one. Mr. Fitch confirmed that if it weren't for some good luck and a guy named Zora, Roy would be one of only a handful of owners on this forum had Chevy pulled the plug back then. Wow!

[Joe C.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I agree with Gerry. If the rules call for banning someone from the judging process for such an infraction then "themz da rulz". But if they don't specify anything about the TDB then he must be able to participate here. If that rule later needs to include the TDB ALSO, then the directors need to change that rule. It's that simple unless of course something else is afoot here.
On the lighter side after hearing John Fitch say in Carlisle this weekend that 1953 through 1955 Corvettes were basically crap, I feel even more sorry for him having to own one. Mr. Fitch confirmed that if it weren't for some good luck and a guy named Zora, Roy would be one of only a handful of owners on this forum had Chevy pulled the plug back then. Wow!

Charlie,

Please see post #50 and read the referenced section of the JRM.

[Paul J.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

This thread has clearly struck a nerve. I think it is because this is our hobby and enjoyment. Rules, responsibilities and punishments exist in our daily lives, and the hobby is our respite from that.
Certainly we need our rules, but they should be enforced with the spirit that this is our fun and we are all in it together. Punishment should be only as severe as absolutely necessary and should be meted out with a smile and pat on the back.
It should not be vindictive and harsh or we have lost what we want from our organization.

Well said....

[Henry S.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

I have great respect for ALL the "ole timers" on here and always look forward to reading and learning about our hobby through them each day. NONE of us would know about all the accessories offered by the General if not for Roy!! Unless there is some underlying circumstances about Roy's behavior at Bend other than what has been posted his punishment spelled out in the JRM should be 13 months. If he is getting penalized for other infractions hopefully he has been told. If not, then I believe the NCRS has just set a precedent that ANYONE disobeying this rule from this point forward will receive the 15 month penalty along with losing all privileges here on the TBD.

[Alan W.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

Exactly out of the "Seventh Edition 1953-1993 Corvette Judging Reference Manual" that we pay for.

Page 10
"#10 Length Of The Time On Display & Display Requirements
All cars to be judged, performance verified, or displayed must arrive and be placed on the show field during that day and time as specified in the event information and must stay on display at least until ALL Event Judging is complete or as scheduled, whichever is longer. If logistically possible, events with two (2) day judging will require all cars to be in place for both days of judging at a minimun. Protective covering is to be removed from all cars in the morning of each day, whether being judged or not. Any deviation from these policies, due only to extraordinary circumstance, shall require prior written approval or direction from the
Meeting Judging Chairman.
Except as outlined in Section 9 (Founders Award), and Section 10 (Sportsman Award), owners prematurely removing cars from the judging field will nullify any award achieved and result in a 13 month suspension of the owner fromm any NCRS judging process."

Ok I understand the rule book.
Now PLEASE SELL me the rule book that has the rules for the NCRS Discussion Board.

Thank you for all the rules to follow to a T .
I think, what ????

I will miss the help Roy
Thank you for all.

Alan Whitaker (50550)

[Jeff C.]

Re: Roy Braatz #182 Rant on CF

We seem to be a country of no punishment for violating the rules/law. When there is an attemt at punishment we cry violation of my rights, over reaction or racist. Roy knows the rules. Man up
Jeff Cheney