C1 spindle direction

[David H.]

Is it actually possible to intall new king pins with the spindle upside down? Is there a top and bottom to the spindle?
I dont see any reference to it in all the articles and manuals that I have.
But, I think I know the answer to the question. @#$%^&*!

[Tom P.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

ABSOLUTELY, it only goes one way. Although, the spindles are NOT left and right, but the spindle supports ARE left and right.
The spindles have a "flat" next to ONE of the bushing bores. This flat goes UP, and it's purpose is to make contact with a nub on the knuckle of the spindle support, which limits backward travel of the spindle.

[David H.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

"ABSOLUTELY, it only goes one way. "
Tom, Ya wanna bet?!

It appears that I have the spindle itself upsided down in the spindle supports. Not just one, but both of them! No wonder it went together so hard.
Did I tell you my middle name is "Murphy"? as in Murphy's Law. I use a lot of mulligans in my life.

I dont think I have damaged anything in doing this. I have pulled one of them back off and apart. Putting it back on correctly it still hits this stop to prevent the rearward travel of the spindle. It does not seem to travel very far in that direction. Something still doesnt seem correct with it. I finally gave up on it at 8:30pm tonight. I will try some more tomorrow.
The picture I have added I believe is upside down on the spindle.
Do you agree?

[Tom P.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

Yep, you need to pull out the king pin and flip the spindle over.
The thrust bearing goes on the bottom and the shims (if needed) go on the top.

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

These pics may help. Another orientation aid is the grease fittings..... Left side face rearward, Right side face forward. Also remember that Left side part#'s are odd numbered, Right side part#'s are even numbered.
Rich

Left.....



Right.....

[David H.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

Pictures help alot for me. That was my next question. Grease fittings direction. So I think I have the drivers sided back together and correct.
However, it seems to have a lot of motion in one direction and not much the other way. It hits the stop fairly quickly it seems. THe attached picture show it at the stop from 90 degrees from the spindle.
Does this seem ok?
Thanks for the help guys.

[Tom P.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

That is correct!
REMEMBER, the upper-lower A-frames are angled toward the rear, thus, when the spindle swings rearward, past the centerline of the A-frames, then it is turned quite a bit from the straight ahead position. Also, since there is a stop on EACH spindle support, and each side is connected together with the steering linkage, then when one spindle makes contact with the stop on its respective spindle support--------------------THE OTHER SIDE ALSO COMES TO A STOP! Make sense?

Furthermore, IF I'm looking at your first picture correctly, the upper-outer bushing (with the grease fitting) is supposed to be toward the REAR. Thus, if you have the hex hole in the upper-outer shaft/eccentric facing forward, then BOTH the shaft and the two bushings would need to be removed and reversed.
Now, does it matter which way the shaft/bushing are installed? For the purpose of functionality, NO! But, for super picky NCRS judge, YES. Why? Because that is the original factory orientation of the upper-outer shaft/bushings. Also, the lower-outer shaft is supposed to be installed with the grease fitting toward the rear.

[David H.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

Now it makes a little more sense. I didnt realize the angle of the A frames entered into the equation.
You are absolutely correct on the upper outer bushings and shaft. They are also in wrong.
I have the assembly mounted on an engine stand and it is hanging funny. Not like you would see it in the car. So it is somewhat confusing what is up and what is down, inner, outer, upper, lower....
That's the only excuse I can come up with here.
I have started on the passengers side and that is not going well either.
The lower outer is way too tight when I torque it down. That will have to wait for another day. I've had it for today!
Thanks for all your input and help today.

[David H.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

Does anyone happen to have the part numbers for the drivers and passengers spindle support arms? I have 3733450 and 3733448 but would like to double check which goes where.
Thanks.

[David H.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

I find in the archives that pn 3733450 is the right side, (passengers) and that 3733449, (not 448) is the left side (drivers).
At least I had this correct!

[Graeme B.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

I'm glad I've got a C3. Those things are wierd !
Cheers, Graeme.

[David H.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

If the gap in the yoke of the lower outer A Arm is too small, can I spread that just a little to accomadate the knuckle support so that there is a gap on both sides of it? The way it is now, there is no gap on the back side and when I torque it, the spindle will not rotate on the pivot bolt.

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

David, You must make sure the knuckle lower bushing is centered in the yoke of the arm when you begin to thread the shaft into it. Start at rear and thread to the front. If the threads don't line up when you get to front, use a large c-clamp onto the ends of the control arm to apply just enough force to get it to thread in easily on that side. When done the knuckle bushing should be centered in the control arm.

One note, the replacement rubber seals are typically thicker than originals and you may have trouble getting them in without distorting them. Use some grease to help them along.

Also, when done this part of the assembly will be pretty tight. Don't worry about that. It's inherent in the design due to the spring loading and all the forces in the suspension when unweighted. Once everything is done and the car is weighted normally with body, engine etc, it'll just work.

Rich

[David H.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

[quote=Richard Mozzetta (13499);495175]David, You must make sure the knuckle lower bushing is centered in the yoke of the arm when you begin to thread the shaft into it. Start at rear and thread to the front. If the threads don't line up when you get to front, use a large c-clamp onto the ends of the control arm to apply just enough force to get it to thread in easily on that side. When done the knuckle bushing should be centered in the control arm.

The issue with mine is that there is only about a half of a thread on the front side and no space on the back side when trying to center it in the a-arm yoke. My understanding of how this works is that you need at least some space on both front and back of the lower pivot bolt bushing so that the bushing does not touch the a-arm and will rotate freely after you torque the pivot bolt and the nut on the other side. As you should be able to see in the picture the right side has a small gap between the shoulder of the bushing and the inside of the a-arm. Room enough for the seal to drop into. On the left side it is tight against the a-arm with no room for the seal. When torqued tight, the arm compresses and clamps the pivot bolt tight. Can I simply spread the a-arm yoke slightly to allow for the gap on both sides?

[Richard M.]

Re: C1 spindle direction

What is your measurement of the open area inside spacing,(captive nut face to the other)? I'll measure mine on both sides later.

Something's appears way off

If you spread the area in between yours it could cause a offset angle and you won't have parallel surfaces of the threaded nuts in the arm. Don't do that yet.

Rich