Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

[Chris E.]

I'm just curious to hear the stories. I'm sure they're out there.

Who has seen or been the recipient of a FULL deduct for paint. (85 points for a 67) Please tell me what kind of paint material you used (BC/CC, lacquer, urethane, etc), what you did to prepare the paint (if anything) and what the judges said. Also please tell me what month and year the event was at. I'm MOST interested in recent events.

Anyone from the Florida regional out there?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Mike G.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

i have not. i see even the base clear cars with untreated jambs still getting 50% in chapter judging.

[Dave B.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Chris,

I had my 65 judged for the first time at a local chapter Meet during October 2009 and did receive the full 85 point deduction. The car had been repainted a number of years ago before I purchased it in a base/clearcoat. I don't know the type of base paint. The judges were very clear about their rules. They recognize that base/clearcoat is very common and that in itself is not the full deduction. They are interested in seeing what steps were taken to dull door jams, etc , none of which I had done. They essentially told me my reduction would be reduced if I worked on the dulling of door jams (especially the door hinge area), hood edge areas, the interior areas of air vents, and bottom edges of the fenders. This is my project before next October's Meet.

Dave Brown

[Jean C.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Chris,
I am not sure if your post is one of general interest or if it is specifically related to a car that you intend to have judged.

Should we presume that your car is painted in BC/CC and you are concerned how your car will judge? If this presumption is correct, have you taken steps necessary to avoid a 100% deduct on exterior paint?

I suspect there may have been a mid-year judged at the Lone Star Regional in Killeen in October 2009 that took a full deduct on paint. There are things an owner can do to avoid the full deduct; however, it is certainly the owner's choice on whether to do this or to maintain the car in a manner that meets their personal taste.

Best regards,

[Chris E.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Charlie, yes it is about my car, and yes I have taken some steps to minimize my deduct.

I've had my car through two rounds of Chapter judging and am headed to the Iowa Regionals in a little over a month.

The first time out, I got a 20% deduct, the second time out I got a 50% deduct. I'm fine with either of those outcomes, I just want to prevent the 100%.

I have dulled down the door jambs (not the doors yet, this weekend I'll do that), the hood drip rails, the wiper grilles and under the convertible top decklid.

The message I got my first time out was "nice approximation of lacquer, good orange peel, but door jambs too shiney". (20% deduct) So I dulled them down. The message I got my SECOND time out was "door jambs dull, but not dull enough". (50% deduct)

I'm pretty sure the car won't get 100%, but I wanted to see what other people had ACTUALLY experienced on their cars or cars they have witnessed / judged. I'm trying to get a feeling for what is really happening nationwide right now.

So far, it looks like cars that have shiney door jambs are getting 100% deducts and cars that don't get less than that. That's what I want, less than 100% deduct.

How's that?

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I'm just curious to hear the stories. I'm sure they're out there.

Who has seen or been the recipient of a FULL deduct for paint. (85 points for a 67) Please tell me what kind of paint material you used (BC/CC, lacquer, urethane, etc), what you did to prepare the paint (if anything) and what the judges said. Also please tell me what month and year the event was at. I'm MOST interested in recent events.

Anyone from the Florida regional out there?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I had a full deduct for paint on myn 67 400/air Corvette because the door jams & under bumpers were too shinny. I think you only get a 50% deduction for too nice of paint on the rest of the car. You need to spray clear rattle can paint on these areas to make them happy. We play with there ball & field if you no like the rules you no need to play there game.
KEN

[Jack H.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

That's a pretty tall order these days, but I HAVE seen it happen.

Remember, paint these day is divided into TWO like items: (1) Color, and (2) Paint. In the 'good ole days', it was a SINGLE line item and ranked right up there with the engine block.

So, to actually take a FULL deduction on paint, you have to have the car painted TOTALLY the wrong color and then go execute an obvious BC/CC application on the paint.

OR

You can have the 'right' color, but encounter that particular judge who objects to the size/composition of the metal flake in your paint and also execute a BC/CC application.

OR

Have that rather rare factory car whose trim tag reads 'PRIME' and not be able to live with your car restored without a color coat of paint on 'er.

[Michael F.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

How do you "dull down" bc/cc door jams after painted?????/ thanks.

[Dick W.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Bad trim tag will get you a full deduct

[Tom M.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I was at the Florida meet in January this year, and the car next to my L88 had a real nice black L89 1969 he got full deduct on his paint, mostly because it was to nice, and the door jambs were not factory , to nice , but it looked real good , regards Tom

[Clark K.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I suspect there may have been a mid-year judged at the Lone Star Regional in Killeen in October 2009 that took a full deduct on paint.

Charlie could be referring to my car, a rare '65 Rally Red/red L76 C-60 coupe. It was repainted by a previous owner in 2004 in order to sell it for a profit at auction. The owner was a business trying to make a profit and they know that most Sting Ray buyers are not NCRS members. This car was prepared strictly for speculation on the open market.

I had it judged at the 2009 Lone Star Regional and got a total (85 point) deduction for the body paint. The judging team's written comments were: "NTP finish - no dulling anywhere - FULL DEDUCT". I was very disappointed about it since I had taken "only" a 22 point deduction six months earlier at the chapter flight judging meet and never expected worse. In the judges favor, they took the time to explain their decision which was almost apologetic in nature. They then told me that they loved my car!

I have been told that my car's BC/CC finish is not the problem. The problem, according to the exterior judging team, is that the car is too glossy everywhere, which is obviously "Not Typical Production" (NTP). They told me how to dull the jambs and the other areas that were not buffed at the factory.

However, this car is one that I show competitively and it would NOT have amassed the Best of Show awards and the First in Class trophies if my car had the typical factory production finish. So, I have to accept the fact that car show judges love my car's finish and NCRS judges do not. I cannot have it both ways.

[Jim D.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

This thread clearly shows the the judges "opinion" is being factored into the score. I thought judging was supposed to be objective. Oh well.

[Dick W.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

I was at the Florida meet in January this year, and the car next to my L88 had a real nice black L89 1969 he got full deduct on his paint, mostly because it was to nice, and the door jambs were not factory , to nice , but it looked real good , regards Tom

Tom, would you happen to have any photos of the L-89 engine compartment, especially the RH side of the engine

[Chris E.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

Thanks Clark for the writeup (and sorry about the full deduct).

So far, it sounds like if you have dull door jambs, you get 50% deduct. If you have shiney door jambs, you get 100% deduct.

That's what I was expecting to hear.

Keep 'em comin' guys. Only 37 days until I'm on the show field.

[Gary S.]

Re: Anyone seen a full deduct for paint lately in judging?

OK, I will bite some on this one. I judged 65 exteriors 3 times last year including the 2009 and 2010 Old Town, Florida meets. Of the 8 cars in 2010 at Old Town, I don't remember any deduct for "color" which is 85 points. The "color" part is generally not an issue. But when two cars are of the same color and set side by side and don't look the same color, someone has to lose. For the "Paint" section worth 45 orig/40 quality points, I think only one had no deduct, 2 or 3 had 100% deducts and the rest were 20% or 50% deducts. This has been my typical experience. Many cars showed up with the standard BC/CC paint job. Some made the effort to dull down, some did not, some had orange peel. Few have lacquer jobs. Most were just plain over-shinny and too nice. A few were first time judged cars. Owners who have been through more than one judging tend to dull down. Those who know the judging system and consequences shoot for a 20% deduct for happiness if not possible to get no deduct for some reason.

You can't blame owners who want an awesome paint job after spending all that time and money. Who wants to see dullness and orange peel after that! Because you can still get a top flight with a big paint deduct, it is worth over-restoration to some owners.

From a judge's standpoint, the paint section is about the most difficult to judge because it has a ton of points assigned to it and you have to be able to explain your deducts to the owner. As a judge, I feel the pain when an owner gets whacked for 20 or 40 or ??? points!

In my 22 years of judging, the maddest I ever saw an owner was after judging his paint. That car's particular issue was clearly outlined in the standard deduct section of the judging manual. But, it was not an easy fix and would have cost a ton of time and money to rectify.

So, if you are going to paint your car, study and know before you do. Personally, I like single stage paint jobs if you won't do lacquer.