Too much money and no common sense !!!!

[Edward M.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

I think that we sometimes become to fanatical about our cars. I belong to many other car clubs. I have seen million dollar cars driven in the rain, to and from events. I overheard one owner telling a very surprised spectator that they are just cars, were meant to be driven, and will clean up again. He went on to tell the spectator that he did not mind cleaning his car up, it gave him an excuse to get out of the house and gave him time to clear his mind.

Well put Dick.

To this day, I still remember Ed Mueller needing to go down to the store during one of the early 1990s Cypress Gardens meets.

The judging team (I was part of the team) had just finished examining his yellow 1969 ZL-1 coupe.

He jumped into his yellow ZL-1 and took off down the road. Came back about a half hour later and put it back on the show field.

This is the same car that Roger Judski now owns.

[Phil D.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

I'm here to learn. My 69 was restored by the previous owner to a driver quality right out of one of those Taiwanese parts catalogs and I like it just fine that way. I tend to be the one who likes all my parts to sparkle and look cool. I really don't have any intention of ever having it judged. It would be more expensive than the car is worth to try to put mine back to top flight but I appreciate the effort that others put into doing that.

NCRS is a resource I can trust. Even tho I don't have dreams of awards, I want to know everything I can before I make a decision to change something. And how many times have you run into somebody bragging on their Corvette at a car show (or on a forum) and they don't seem to know what they are talking about. I want to know if I'm looking at original parts, or aftermarket so I can politely smile and nod while filtering out the BS. And if I ever were to come into some money, I'd like to know the socially acceptible ways to spend it before I go tossing out original motors and such. That story does seem a shame.

Since this organization is about original cars and making them as close to original as possible why would anyone be a member here if thats not what there into? There are plenty of hot rod forums out there why not enjoy them instead?
Why hang out here if this is not what your into,sounds kind of dumb to me

[Erik S.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

One of my Chapter mates bought a 1978 Pace Car with around a couple thousand miles on it. Promptly put it on the road tour to the national and had it judged there. He doubled the miles on the car in that trip. I can't recall anyone throwing stones at him.

But this I can understand and in line with (as far as I understand) the purpose of NCRS judging (e.g. driving points) and the NCRS in general. But I would never buy a low mile classic Corvette for a driver - I WOULD buy a low mile 06/07 Z06 however for a driver (taking offers btw )

And yes, I am driving the heck out of my 69 (photo taken 2 weeks ago - around 40F), but it is not a low mile car - 55K plus, but I think it will do just fine on the judging field

[Lynn H.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

On my question how he felt about his road tour accident, Werner responded (and I quote): "this incident will give me the opportunity to paint the car a color of my choosing this time around"


I am going to do a similar project on a 69 once I have finished my 'correct' restoration of my 68 L71, but I am not going to sacrifice a matching 69 for that .

In my view there are NCRS cars and the rest. Personally I find it rather useless to buy this 500 mile pacer to drive, whereby there are plenty of other suitable cars to drive. On the last UK Chapter roadtour there was a guy who had his couple of 100 miles late shark judged - that was fun and meaningful from a judging perspective. But I found it rather silly that he used the same car on some roadtour afterwards. Hey, but so many people so many opinions.

Erik

I was able to view the "stinkray" in the body shop area of the members shop a week ago and am happy to report that it will not be long before it is once again on the road, and burning rubber!! It did not appear that he was going to change the color at this time, but I will be checking up on it this afternoon. I believe it will live on as a yellow car for awhile yet.
Lynn

[Tom P.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

Tom;

I think you should take your 56 to an NCRS meet and submit it for judging.

The judges would spend all day on that one car. You could just sit there and enjoy the spectical.

........

I did, several years ago-------------at Joplin. It was just another example of my reasonS for my attitude. Plus, during the judging, I made it ABUNDANTLY clear that I DID NOT expect it to even attain Third Flight (and it didn't). I simply wanted to see how it would compare. At that same event, a VERY WELL KNOWN (deceased now) NCRS member said (it was repeated to me by the person he said it to) "Why the hell did he bring that car here?"

[Wayne B.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

Changing a car from original has been going on since some guy hung dice from the windshield on the first Model T, so what? it's their car. NCRS is about restoring to original and how many of us doing a restoration started with a perfectly original car? None is the obvious answer so original is the rarity not the norm. It's like building sand castles near the waves, they come off the assembly line and get changed and they come off restoration and get changed, pretty much all of them are original for what's relatively only a brief moment. Drive it out of the judging circle and off comes the rare alternator or other "valuable" part and on goes the replacement...moment over.

[Paul J.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

I recall a member of my local Vette club who had a garage specializing in Corvettes. He had a 66 Coupe with fender flares, non-factory side pipes, non-original engine and several other features. It was painted with a heavy metal flake silver with a rebel flag on the top (this was in 1974, well before the General Lee). Around this time I was forming my opinions on bringing my own car back to stock, and asked him about the radical customization. He showed me the photos of the car before he worked on it, bent into a "U" shape and totally destroyed. He bought the car from a junkyard and brought it back to life.

While I prefer stock Corvettes and hate to see someone go the other way toward customization, I realized then that all cars can't be Top Flight, and some can be pretty nice even if they aren't to NCRS standards.

And Tom, when I complete the meticulus stock restoration of my 64, it won't have black goo all over the suspension and a sh***y paint job, as per NCRS judging standards.

[Roy B.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

I did, several years ago-------------at Joplin. It was just another example of my reasonS for my attitude. Plus, during the judging, I made it ABUNDANTLY clear that I DID NOT expect it to even attain Third Flight (and it didn't). I simply wanted to see how it would compare. At that same event, a VERY WELL KNOWN (deceased now) NCRS member said (it was repeated to me by the person he said it to) "Why the hell did he bring that car here?"

Tom! I've gotten the same remarks by some but 99% of members are good people and I over look those that say that. Life is to short and I dig your Corvette.

[Chuck L.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

It seems like I have read threads like this over the past 15 years about 5 different times. Must be in the winter that's all we have to do!

[Wayne B.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

And Tom, when I complete the meticulus stock restoration of my 64, it won't have black goo all over the suspension and a sh***y paint job, as per NCRS judging standards.

Ahhhh!! Now there's the twist Paul. We take on a project and digest all the little nuances of the original manufacture of these cars and see The Big Gap. That Big Gap between GM line manufacturing at an era of...let's be nice and say "less than perfect" manufacturing practices and the car as the engineers and designers envisioned. So we grit our teeth and recreate overspray, sloppy glue, less than perfect paint, etc (is that what Zora envisioned?). You know, I understand and respect the NCRS goal of a faithful reproduction of the original but I wonder if a catagory of cars restored with the quality that the engineers and designers envisioned might not be a bad idea, maybe even the right thing to do. A different judging sheet, did the car originally have overspray in (fill in the many areas)...did the member FIX that? No? deduction. Originally had excessive orange peel, did the member FIX that? No? deduction! Black goo all over the suspension? did the member FIX that? No? Deduction! Etc etc etc (not enough space for all the "etc's")

[Joel F.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

And yep, I've been criticized several times------------------some of them NCRS members, for the way I've built the 56. For years, even though I continued to maintain my NCRS membership, I had no association with NCRS members. But then, I decided what the heck, why not strike back at them. So, that's what I do now.

[Lynn H.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

Ahhhh!! Now there's the twist Paul. We take on a project and digest all the little nuances of the original manufacture of these cars and see The Big Gap. That Big Gap between GM line manufacturing at an era of...let's be nice and say "less than perfect" manufacturing practices and the car as the engineers and designers envisioned. So we grit our teeth and recreate overspray, sloppy glue, less than perfect paint, etc (is that what Zora envisioned?). You know, I understand and respect the NCRS goal of a faithful reproduction of the original but I wonder if a catagory of cars restored with the quality that the engineers and designers envisioned might not be a bad idea, maybe even the right thing to do. A different judging sheet, did the car originally have overspray in (fill in the many areas)...did the member FIX that? No? deduction. Originally had excessive orange peel, did the member FIX that? No? deduction! Black goo all over the suspension? did the member FIX that? No? Deduction! Etc etc etc (not enough space for all the "etc's")

Wayne,
I believe that there are 100's of such places and shows ("show and shines") to feature the types of cars you mentioned in your post every year all over the country. The first one that comes to mind, and the biggest in my area is the "Autorama" at Cobo Hall early each year.
Lynn

[Paul J.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

Ahhhh!! Now there's the twist Paul. We take on a project and digest all the little nuances of the original manufacture of these cars and see The Big Gap. That Big Gap between GM line manufacturing at an era of...let's be nice and say "less than perfect" manufacturing practices and the car as the engineers and designers envisioned. So we grit our teeth and recreate overspray, sloppy glue, less than perfect paint, etc (is that what Zora envisioned?). You know, I understand and respect the NCRS goal of a faithful reproduction of the original but I wonder if a catagory of cars restored with the quality that the engineers and designers envisioned might not be a bad idea, maybe even the right thing to do. A different judging sheet, did the car originally have overspray in (fill in the many areas)...did the member FIX that? No? deduction. Originally had excessive orange peel, did the member FIX that? No? deduction! Black goo all over the suspension? did the member FIX that? No? Deduction! Etc etc etc (not enough space for all the "etc's")

Wayne:

I like the way you think. I've heard comments on this forum about those of "us" who can't bear to replicate factory manufacturing processes, and present "over restored" cars. Well to me, "over restored" means correctly restored (there, I finally said it).

I have a lot of respect for the NCRS and what it is and I would'nt change anything that the NCRS does or stands for (other than fixing some errors in the JG), but different judging classes for different types of cars would be a lot of fun, and it would bring in some of the non-original owners out there. It would also bring in local clubs and sponsers.

In 20 years or so when interest in the organization wanes, it might be a very good idea.

I like your term "The Big Gap", I won't forget it.

Paul

[Wayne B.]

Re: Too much money and no common sense !!!!

When I painted my LT-1 this summer I had to adjust my spray at the end because the paint was going on smooth and there was no detectable orange peel. So now I have a shine but some orange peel too, just the way the guys on the line were being hurried to do. I had my wheels blasted and then I repainted but had to go back and take the tape off so I could get the overspray from the front side to show on the back...just like the fine process at the plant in 1970 (I bet Ferrari's and Porsche weren't painted the same way in 1970). Now I'm at the end of my project (the last 5% is way longer than the first 95%) and staring at a perfectly good seven leaf HD spring that I have to take off to replace with the original nine leaf, sigh. There have been a number of things that I've read in the judges manual and forum and just said out loud "Oh that's just nuts" but, that's what the NCRS restoration is about.

I'm waiting to find that page that states some odd part MUST be held on with chewing gum the way Bubba did it on the line that day.