Bogus VIN's

[Scott S.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

Apparently the "edit" button is only available on recent posts... should I contact a moderator to see if they will let me go back and remove some pictures and references?

[Joe L.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

Apparently the "edit" button is only available on recent posts... should I contact a moderator to see if they will let me go back and remove some pictures and references?

Scott------


I would not worry about it.

[Mike T.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

We need to address this from 2 different perspectives.

#1. It is a legal issue. In Texas, Transportation Code 501.151 states "A person commits an offense if the person stamps or places a serial number on a vehicle or part of a vehicle with the intent of changing the identity of the vehicle." It is a 3rd degree felony.
I'm sure most states have a similar statute.
If we as NCRS members/judges observe a car that is participating in one of our functions, and we have reasonable suspicion to believe that a VIN has been alterred, we need to report it to the local PD/SO. If the local agency doesn't have an auto theft unit, they can refer you to a regional task force who will be happy to investigate.

#2. We are the NCRS. We are the purists who value authenticity. If we see what we believe to be a fraud, we need to document the irregularity. For example, if we come across 2 cars with the same VIN, we should document it in the judging sheets, as well as have the information available in a database, similar to what we are currently embarking on pertaining to award histories of individual cars.

We are obligated to report these serious violations of the law.
We should also be obligated to support the founding mission and spirit of the NCRS, by doing our part to prevent the fraudulent misrepresentation of cars.

[Jack H.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

Hum, the VIN sequence appears in only one place on a Corvette (the VIN tag). The other places where a portion or derivative of that sequence appear are not the vehicles legal VIN.

On fraud, I suggest you consult an attorney. If my memory serves, fraud doesn't exist without financial damages that can be proven. Even a 'put together' car is probably more valuable in its discrete parts format than what the buyer paid...

On moving quickly to notifiy authorities, this is a club. We are NOT policemen. Plus, we even recognize 'fake' Corvettes (those recovered from scrap wearing State issued VIN tags)!

I see no way for us to either try to become law enforcement authorities nor any wisdom in moving in that direction. We now have a presense in multiple States and multiple nations around the globe. What's not lawful here/there may be perfectly legitimate there/here...

It's my opinion we should stay right where we are...a club that provides honors and recognition for the restoration/preservation efforts of its members with published rules to govern such. Stepping outside the silhouette of that charter could be ripe with litigation potential!

[Joe R.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

We need to address this from 2 different perspectives.

#1. It is a legal issue. In Texas, Transportation Code 501.151 states "A person commits an offense if the person stamps or places a serial number on a vehicle or part of a vehicle with the intent of changing the identity of the vehicle." It is a 3rd degree felony.
I'm sure most states have a similar statute.
If we as NCRS members/judges observe a car that is participating in one of our functions, and we have reasonable suspicion to believe that a VIN has been alterred, we need to report it to the local PD/SO. If the local agency doesn't have an auto theft unit, they can refer you to a regional task force who will be happy to investigate.

#2. We are the NCRS. We are the purists who value authenticity. If we see what we believe to be a fraud, we need to document the irregularity. For example, if we come across 2 cars with the same VIN, we should document it in the judging sheets, as well as have the information available in a database, similar to what we are currently embarking on pertaining to award histories of individual cars.

We are obligated to report these serious violations of the law.
We should also be obligated to support the founding mission and spirit of the NCRS, by doing our part to prevent the fraudulent misrepresentation of cars.

Mr. Tower,

Are you not aware that more vin tags have originated in Texas than all the other states in the union combined? Along with thousands, yes thousands of trim tags!

Lubbock is what we're talking about here!

JR

[Floyd B.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

NCRS needs to address this issue more aggressively, and yes, in spite of the outrageous money fellow members have spent, it is against the law, and we need to work with law enforcement to contribute to ending this illegal activity.

This seems like a slippery slope with no determinant end-of-game. It reminds me of the "Ship of Theseus" paradox:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

As a hypothetical example, what if an owner of a '67 L88 had let it sit in his back yard and completely disintegrate into a mound of dirt so that the only part left was the VIN tag. I then buy that VIN tag and the clean title he keeps somewhere in the house. Am I not the proud owner of a '67 L88? A year later I show up on the judging field with a beautifully "restored" '67 L88; all the casting numbers and date codes are correct. I openly admit that the engine pad was re-stamped with my VIN and that I had to replace many of the parts. Am I a fraud?

[Robert R.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

Joe,
Who or what is the significance of Lubbock Texas?
If you prefer, please PM your response.
Thanks,
Bob

[Bill C.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

In Texas when a car is bought in another state and transferred to a Texas title the DPS (Department of Public Safety) checks the VIN on the block and frame. I bought my 1990 ZR-1 in San Jose and had to do this when titling it. Nothing occurs for in-state sales, but at least it's a step in the right direction

Jim

Jim,
We do the same in Conn. After I show them where to find the Vin tag, explain thats where it belongs and yes it used pop rivets,

they verify the number.

On a C-1 once he would not take my word the tag was attached with screws and needed to call his tech line, added 1/2 hour to the process

They do not have a clue

[Joe R.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

Joe,
Who or what is the significance of Lubbock Texas?
If you prefer, please PM your response.
Thanks,
Bob

Nuff Said!

JR

[Jim T.]

Re: Bogus VIN's

True story. I posted in several issues of the NCRS Driveline Information Wanted to find the current owner of my wife's 64 Corvette convertible a couple years ago. She still has the Corvette Owners card with the VIN and that was used in the add.
Another member of the NCRS saw the add and assisted in finding the current owner.
The current owner was contacted. The VIN information the current owner had was the same, but it was not the same car. He said he had painted the car white and found no trace that his 64 had ever been painted red from the factory. My wife's red 64 was bought new and it was still red when it was traded in 1965. She also still has her red 64 convertible on film. It was in Missouri when traded and located in Florida.