1969 SB Stamp Pad

[Erv M.]

My 1969 VIN is 194379S716618 a February 1969 car. Can anyone post or send me a photo of their pad that has a VIN close to mine?

I am trying to compare broach and actual stamps used in that time frame.

My car is a small block 350/300 with an assembly and suffix of V0211HZ

Thanks.

[Erv M.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

My 1969 VIN is 194379S716618 a February 1969 car. Can anyone post or send me a photo of their pad that has a VIN close to mine?

I am trying to compare broach and actual stamps used in that time frame.

My car is a small block 350/300 with an assembly and suffix of V0211HZ

Thanks.

Any help appreciated

[Lynn H.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Erv,
I read your post the other day, and actually wondered what type of response you would receive and just thought I would throw out an opinion.
I think you may find a lot of members are reluctant to "help out", with the "restamping" of an engine stamp pad. I am not inferring that this is what your doing, but it sounds like maybe the case (please do not be offended by this post either way).
I do know that AL Grenning is the "man" when it comes to engine stamp pads (at least on the midyears) and I have heard he has quite a portfolio of data on this subject as well as some great books available (on trim tags for sure) through the NCRS. I do not know personally if his reaserch covers the C3 cars, but I am sure he probably has some information on this.
If you are trying to verify your engine stamp pad as original, I would recommend you get in touch with Al, with a good clear photo, and would bet he may be able to help you out. If restamping IS why you are inquiring, I may be wrong, but I do not think you will find an overload of help with this subject in this Forum.
Just trying to help,
Lynn Houk

[Terry M.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Yes, Al does early C3s. Give him a shout. If you are trying to verify your engine stamp some good close-up photos will be necessary. Without good quality photos no one can do much. It you are just looking for images of other engines near yours, I doubt Al would help with that kind of "fishing trip."

ALGRENNING@AOL.com

[Michael D.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

...I am trying to compare broach and actual stamps used in that time frame...

I'm confused, but unless you have reason to believe your block has been replaced, you're looking at the real thing.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Erv,

Why don't you post a picture of your pad so that we can have a look?

Thanks.

[Kenny C.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Okay since the can is open I will jump in. I also have a 69 L-46 and am the second owner. I purchased the car when it was only 9 years old and was all original. Some 20 plus years ago I rebuilt the motor and like so many others had the machine shop deck the block and thus wiped out he pad. Back then I couldn't care less about preservation. So now I am restoring the car and am trying very hard to go back to correct. Is it acceptable under these circumstances to re stamp the pad? I know 100% that this is the original motor and would not be falsifying anything only restoring what I stupidly messed up way back when. I will never sell the car so monetary value is not an issue however trying to reassemble correctly is.

PS
Sorry to high jack the thread but I have a feeling we may be asking for the same reason.

Regards
Kenny

[Lynn H.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Kenny,
I would say this has been a subject of much debate over the years. I have some of the older Corvette Restorer magazines, and this has been going on for years. There is clearly some questions on the ethics of restamping motors. I know it happens all the time, but like I stated in an earlier post, I would be surprised if you found much help on this forum for a variety of reasons.
Please don't be offended and this is just my opinion,
Lynn Houk

[Erv M.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

I do not want to restamp my car, it is what it is. During Regional judging I took a hit because the broach marks were not present and I strongly expect and respect the judges that my stamp has an issue. During two other previos judging events there were no deducts in this category. So this issue took me by surprise.

Guys my car is a small block, painted the wrong color and recieved a 91.2 at the regional. It is not a bad car but again it isn't worth a great deal of money. I enjoy it and have a blast with this organization.

During the Regional I attended Al's seminar as he displayed numerous pads, mostly mid-years as examples of similarities. Some displayed were original but were not up to the judging standards, jumped stampings, etc.

Just wanted a comparison and opened a can of worms!

By the way here is the definition of a counterfeit:

COUNTERFEIT:
"To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud".
For instance, the following would be examples of counterfeiting:
-Repainting an original blue car red and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color.
-Installing a red interior in a car that left the factory with a blue interior and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color interior.
-Replacing the engine of an original small block Corvette with a big block and stamping numbers on it to make it appear to be an original big block engine.
-Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and stamping the numbers and suffix code on the block to make it appear to be original.

If this Kenny wanted to restamp his block is he defrauding anyone?

I am not here to change your views, however if you condemn people that are willing to restore their cars without defrauding anyone I suggest you petition to change this definition.

Now the can of worms is definitely opened.

[Michael W.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Now the can of worms is definitely opened.

Not at all. What you pasted above has been around for years and has been truly thrashed to death and back again multiple times.

The word restamping infers that something is being stamped again in the same context as restoring is to return something to a former state. The problems start when a different stamp is chosen that the original.

Kenny's problems are more complex- the stamp pad surface most probably does not look typical of factory production. That would require attention before any restamping activity.

[Lynn H.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Erv,
I kind of seen this coming, and I do not disagree with anything you said. I personnally have never:
Had a car judged
Judged a car
Attended one of Al G.'s seminars (although I hear they are great)
But as stated, this subject has been beaten to death over the years, and reaches into the true depths of the core values of what this organization is all about. I do not think it is that no one wants to help you, this is just a very touchy subject. With the information you have now provided about why you asked, I would make a couple of suggestions. The first being that if you believe your pad to be original-leave it alone (not that you said you were going to do anything with it, I am NOT trying to put words in your mouth). The next being to spend some time while at the shows and judging meets looking at stamp pads, and see first hand some of the differences (you may already have done some of this-sounds like probably so) and variations in the pads. Most of all, ENJOY YOUR CAR!! The truth of the matter is that there are way more 63 fuelies and 67 435's out there now, than EVER came from the factory, and some of these guys have paved the way for guys like yourself whose intentions are polar opposites, and totally innocent. When I first read your post the other day, I really did wonder what kind of response you would get. When you posted again this morning, I thought I would chime in. I am NO EXPERT on anything and do not claim to be. I was just offering an opinion as no one had responded to you.
Once again just an opinion, and please don't be mad,
Lynn Houk

[Michael W.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

I do not want to restamp my car, it is what it is. During Regional judging I took a hit because the broach marks were not present and I strongly expect and respect the judges that my stamp has an issue. During two other previos judging events there were no deducts in this category. So this issue took me by surprise.

Many cars have no discernible broach marks- that's a normal variation of the machining process. Let's see a picture.

[John H.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

As a practical matter, a detected restamp gets exactly the same deduction (88 points) as a (decked) blank pad.

[Kenny C.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

I have no real need to re stamp my block or care all that much about the point deduction I may decide to have my car judged maybe not. I would never try to deceive anyone, what would be the point? The car will never be sold, at least not while I'm alive and after all since it is a small block the value just isn't there anyway. I'm really not trying to fool anyone merely display the car as close as i can to the way its supposed to be so broach marks wouldn't matter to me either. No my interest would be mainly a personal satisfaction thing, I like the little detail things that usually go unnoticed by the average passer by. But if the community at large would think that its inappropriate then I would leave it as it is with no reservations whatsoever. I would feel bad having people think I was trying to pull a fast one by re stamping a small block to deceive the NRCS.
Erv does bring up an interesting perspective, is it fraud if it is true and correct? Isn't all restoration fraud if we have changed anything at all? Is it fraud to replace a torn and faded carpet since the car came with carpet? Should we never polish the car or replace brake pads because because that's not the way it rolled off the line? I know I am being a little sarcastic but it makes you think a little, exactly where is the line drawn between restoring and creating something from nothing?

[Lynn H.]

Re: 1969 SB Stamp Pad

Kenny,
As previously stated this IS a fine line, and I would just make one suggestion to you IF you decide to "stamp" your block, find someone in your area who has some experience with this, so as not to make things worse. As John had stated the deduct is the same for the blank pad, as a detected restamp, but if your going to go through the effort you might want to make it a "correct" as you can.
Good Luck with your decision,
Lynn