Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

[Larry T.]

I had my 093 TI distributor repaired recently. The guy that did the job informed me that the rotating pole piece that was on it was wrong and the mainshaft was wrong. I told him I definately wanted it done right and that he should replace the wrong parts with correct parts, but to return the take off parts to me as opposed to providing a credit.
The rotating pole piece had a number 236 stamped in the top of it.

When I got the distributor back a take off pole piece was in the box, but it had the number 542 stamped in it and it was on the underside. Honest mistake, right? Then I decided to investigate the distributor a little bit more and lo and behold, it has a 236 pole piece! Not mine though, this one was stamped on the underside, not the top. Are these two pole pieces functionally the same. Is there a difference between the stamped on top and stamped on the underside ones? Perhaps one is OE and the other is a service part, or worse, some sort of reproduction?

The shaft he replaced and charged me a pretty penny for has no number stamped on top as other purported originals I have seen. I did get my take off back though.

I also had a "restored" 360 can installed, but it is very different from my OEM 236 in that the nipple where the vacuum line goes on is longer, the flat surface inside of the can itself where the "plunger" meets it is gold in color, not silver and the dimples just do not look the same.

Any insight is appreciated and time is of the essence since the check has not cleared the bank yet.

[Larry T.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Please, I need some help. If you have any info that can help me and posting a public reply is of concern please send me a PM.

Thanks.

[Rich P.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Larry,

I can only offer my last experiance with a mid year BB T-I distributor. One of my customers had an NOS distributor bought from GM 20 plus years ago and sent it for "testing" to make sure it was set up. Well it turns out that this NOS unit had nothing that would pass flight judging and they had to purchase a 100% correct distributor. This was 18 months ago and the cost was 3000-3500.00. THESE things are expensive.
I don't know about the # stamp orientation but I have an NOS pole piece that has the # stamped on the underside.

Rich

[Wayne M.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Larry -- this post is not going to answer your questions, as I do not have an original 1111093 T.I. distr. But I do have 6 other K66s and a couple of points-types, and have collected numbers off of them.

I have mostly seen 500-series numbers on the rotating poles (weight base - starwheel), except two early (1964-era) I have with "736". Pic of two different 534's (slot machined differently) attached. With the mainshaft autocam (footballs) I see mostly 2-digit numbers, some underlined, some underside (have to withdraw shaft enough to read).

Did you know that the delco spec catalog of 1966 calls for a vac can numbered "355" ? [The '65 TIM&JG calls for "201"].

Do you have the other correct stuff for an '093' ? Magnet without lips around the 3 screws (this can be verified thru points window if judges are really anal); correct white/faint green stripe wires; correct bottom housing with partially filled groove, etc.

We'll need to hear from someone with a nuts-on original that has taken down all these #'s.

[Dale S.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Nice pictures, Wayne. Dale

[John D.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Here is some info I got from Don Baker on two 66 TI carb distributors he rebuilt.
Both of them original 66 TI': Mainshaft football = 94
Pole piece = 724

Now as far as the Vac Advances (can) goes: One had 360 and the other 093 had a NAPA replacement.

Generally speaking when you see a pole piece from a St. Louis assembly line car it will have #'s in the 700 range.
Service replacement/NOS ones will be in the 500 range. Remember the word generally. If you are conducting a seminar a better word to use is typically or typical.

NOS pole pieces I have for TI are over the counter DR SR's stamped 536 on the bottom side. Generic ones that fit all.
I wouldn't give a second thought about using a 536 though or a 534.

You didn't ask this but NOS 64-65 FI distributors have a ton of difference cams/pole pieces in them.
I know a guy who has his share of NOS 070's and I don't think any of them have the same distr cam. But remember they are service replacements thrown together with inventory on hand. JD

What is the difference between all these numbers on the pole pieces you ask. I am gonna guess and say it's the oval slot in them.

Here is something Dave Fiedler taught me 20 plus years ago. The magnetized plate with the white wires coming out of it. Dave said to avoid at all cost the ones that have two separate wires. One wire is solid white. The other wire is white/green tracer. The POC one has the two wires held together with tape every so often.
The real deal one has a wire like a typical lamp cord. Bonded together. Connector is whitish or clear. I forget. The service replacement is 1960779 and has the lamp cord wire with thin green tracer.
Keep a spare in the car. Later, JD

[Larry T.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Does it make any sense that there would have been a 536 short slot and a 536 long slot pole piece?

[Michael H.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

We'll need to hear from someone with a nuts-on original that has taken down all these #'s.

I popped the cap and rotor off the 093 in my 66 car. The pole piece does not have a number stamped on the top. It might have one stamped on the underside but I can't see it.
The cam is stamped "94".

The pole piece does NOT have nylon rests for the weights to slide on, as seen in Wayne's picture. It has only slightly raised round sections of metal.

I haven't owned this from new so I can't say for sure that any of it is original.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

..... Here is something Dave Fiedler taught me 20 plus years ago. The magnetized plate with the white wires coming out of it. Dave said to avoid at all cost the ones that have two separate wires. One wire is solid white. The other wire is white/green tracer. The POC one has the two wires held together with tape every so often.
The real deal one has a wire like a typical lamp cord. Bonded together. Connector is whitish or clear. I forget. The service replacement is 1960779 and has the lamp cord wire with thin green tracer.
Keep a spare in the car. Later, JD

John -- here's a pair of rare birds that I picked up at some swap meet in the '80s. This part number shows in my Jan '70 P&A30B (as well as earlier P&A30's) as for ONLY '64-5 F.I. w/T.Ign. (plate w/1111064 [not a peep about the 070 ]). Supposedly the difference is in the center bushing/sleeve, per the magazine article that I have. Swap sleeves and you can use on non-FI. Otherwise, identical to the 1960779.

Posted this to show the lamp cord wires that you describe; one has a pale thin green tracer.

[John D.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

The nylon "rests" are typically on the service replacement cams Michael.

Wayne, Thanks for the nice pics. Nice parts you have there also. I have ready in the "Driveline" that a company is contemplating reproing this part. JD

[Mike Z.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Great responses guys. After the initial topic, several other topics arose-here is my 2 cents worth:
1) Vac canisters: per the copies of original Delco blue prints I have, there were 2 series of #093. First engineering date of 8/6/64 shows a #355 vac and the second design date 9/3/65 shows a #360, so, it would appear advance curve specs for the 65 396 were different from the 427-all other items were same P/N: mainshaft, pole piece, springs and weights. The spec max advance on the #355 is 15 vs. the #360 is 12, so I guess they wanted more inital lead on the 427. Just a footnote on the vac: on comparing several OEM vacs to repops, the main thing I notice (besides the much more brilliant plating) is the repop has "ripples" at the outer diameter next to the pinch on the front cone shaped piece-originals do not-put the two next to each other and it is evident.
2) The blueprint P/N for the #093 pole piece is 1960779. I did not have a #093 in stock to check, but the number is underside, has slightly raised round "rests" vs. the plastic buttons and a shorter cam slot are indicitive of the later pieces like the #534 Wayne has pictured-Say Wayne what is the deal with size of the mainshafts on those two pole pieces? One looks like it would fit in a much larger dia shaft-So, does the number have to do with the length of the cam slot? I have observed the raised round raised rests on early originals, and the plastic buttons on later OEM dist-starting around 69-70 and NOS/over the counters.
3) On the wire lead: OEM and most NOS have the lamp cord wire, but also note the ID stripe is a spray painted application. All of the current repops and some early over the counter had the stripe impregnated not sprayed. Be careful when cleaning these sprayed versions-the stripe comes right off with any strong cleaner, paint thinner or reducer.
4) I have maybe 25 TI distributors in stock and only 2 had any marking on the top "football"-one was 183, the other 210W. These distributors are original with mostly original shafts, so I am not sure why some have and some do not have markings-pulled the cap on my 66 425 & 390hp cars= no markings-believe both to have original shafts. All the high horse distributors seem to have a wider and shorter (from the outer end to the center of the springs pin) football with sharper ramps on the cam. Low horse seem to have longer narrow footballs. I have had NOS shafts and they all had markings. #093 Blueprints mainshaft P/N=1965902.
This info might answer some questions, but I am sure will create more questions.
Mike Zamora
#12455

[Larry T.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

Mike,

Thanks for the info, you are right, it does bring up some more questions.

I am posting a few pictures of a "restored" 360 can. I would love to get some opinions on it. In the next post are pics of what I believe to be an original 236, opinions on that would be appreciated as well.

Thanks.

[Larry T.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

My 236 can

[William C.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

The circular marks around the "dimples" on the flange are the only things that look like something I have not seen in typical production pieces. Can't tell from the picture too well, but the front where the nipple joins should be flat, and it appears to be. Production crimps vary somewhat as tooling wears, remember GM was making about 4 MILLION a year on mutiple sets of tooling, so don't get too hung up on looking at one or two, same with location of stamped numbers on the cam atop the mailshaft. I've seen the same part numbered on the top or bottom same item either way. Typically, the cam would be stamped out and numbered at the same time, then fed into the machine that installed the pins. How they fed from the hopper into the pin installation equipment would be random. I would be much more interested in if the geometry on the "football" matches the correct configuration as that is one of the factors that went into designing the curve.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Did I get the shaft on this distributor job??

....-Say Wayne what is the deal with size of the mainshafts on those two pole pieces? One looks like it would fit in a much larger dia shaft-So, does the number have to do with the length of the cam slot? ......

Mike (and Larry T.) Trick shot -- explanation: The weight cam / starwheel on the left is off an NOS 1111263 ball bearing distributor that I have. (on the right is off a '71 LT1). Both started off using the flat "534" rotating weight plate, but the "263" distr. has a bigger diameter shaft (see auto-load pic) and the center hole encroached upon the slot. I think both slots are in the same position. Note the O-ring and the C-clip; in fact there is NOTHING on a ball bearing distr. (exc. the tach driven gear and brass coupler and thrust washer) that can be used on a production K66 unit. Even the bottom cam driven gear is reverse drive.

Most of my late '60s TI rotating poles have "534" plates (mostly stamped on top, but on the bottom of one is "534 CCW" ).