Alternator housing orientation?

[Michael H.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Interesting!

You, of course, know there was a LONG time difference of opiniion between John Pirkle and others in the alternator restoration business on the 'correct' color of the exposed 'rib' section of the stator...

...

I think John Pirkle now agrees that the visible rib section of all stators for at least 63-67 was black.

There are a LOT of excellent C2 factory photos that clearly show the black color. At a guess, I would call it semi gloss?

I don't know when the change to carmel color occured in production but at a guess, I would say possibly early 70's??? I duno. Maybe the C3 guys can help with that.

[John P.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Dad and do NOT agree that black was the only color varnish used originally to insulate stators.I am absolutely sure that the "caramel" color was used frequently.I am also absolutely sure that black was used.My experience is that caramel was used somewhat more,and is the reason we continue to use it.It would be much cheaper to go to black, but I believe to meet the standard of most typical,caramel is the way to go.

[John P.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

As far as the clocking position see Louis's post.

[Michael H.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Dad and do NOT agree that black was the only color varnish used originally to insulate stators.I am absolutely sure that the "caramel" color was used frequently.I am also absolutely sure that black was used.My experience is that caramel was used somewhat more,and is the reason we continue to use it.It would be much cheaper to go to black, but I believe to meet the standard of most typical,caramel is the way to go.

I think all had the carmel coating but I think all 63-67 had the black coating on the center ribs, in addition to the carmel color on the windings.

I've never seen an original 63-67 that didn't have black center ribs and that was way back when they were new.

[John P.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Dad and I have seen many stators with No black on the center ribs that were original to the best of our ability to determine.

[Michael H.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Dad and I have seen many stators with No black on the center ribs that were original to the best of our ability to determine.

Way back in the 60's, when I was a lowly mechanic at a Chevy dealer, one of the things that I did a LOT of was rebuild alternators on new/near new cars. It's amazing how some things seem to stick in the memory. I still remember the black on the stator ribs.
I also remember being a bit surprised when the first stators started showing up without the black paint. I don't remember exactly what year that was but I do vividly remember it.
Funny how people can remember small details about things 40+ years ago and not remember what I had for lunch yesterday but that's the way it is.

I have a LOT of GM photos from the 60's and EVERY one that shows the alternator, clearly shows a black stator. IF there were as many non black stators, I have to think that at least one pic would show this.

Any alternator rebuilt at any time since new would most likely loose ethe black paint on the stator ribs and I seriously doubt there are many that survived this long without a rebuild.

Every pic of an original unrestored alt that was posted here in a previous discussion a year ago had black stator ribs.

I can't say that EVERY stator from the 63-67 era had black ribs but I find it strange that no one has been able to show a pic of a new one with anything but black ribs.

[Rick S.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Help me out here guys. The photos that Chris and I posted appeared to be clocked correctly according to some of the posts but I believe Jack is saying that it is not clocked correctly. What is the consensus? Are they clocked correctly or not?
Rick

[Wayne M.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

What is the consensus? Are they clocked correctly or not?
Rick

Rick & Chris -- correctly clocked, IMO. I might add that if they were my cars, I would want to have the gray R/F plug on a more horizontal alignment (is there a problem with valve cover contact ? are we both using the correct fan belt ?)

I might add that my 1967 road test articles on 327's show the same tilt to the outboard, so I guess it's acceptable.

[Michael H.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Rick & Chris -- correctly clocked, IMO.

I agree. All the GM pic's of new 64-67 engine alternators agree too.

[Chris E.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

I agree. All the GM pic's of new 64-67 engine alternators agree too.

Works for me.

[Rick S.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Ditto

[Mike M.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Chris, your Alt is clocked correctly, especially since it has been "Pirkleized".
The confusion lies in your pic, with the NTP configuration/orientation of the Red Wire and the Ribbed Rubber Cap not being properly fitted over the post, thus, appearing to be positioned too far inboard.
Refer to Rick's photo.
HaND

[John P.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Our research on stator color goes past pictures(although it does include them) We have looked at literally thousands of stators(on cars, NOS items in "cans" that we have opened,on BOWTIE cars,etc.) We have also spent a great deal of time with literature(period GM and DELCO),factory line workers,line supervisors,and engineers.The reason I have been given(By an engineer who worked for Delco in the 60's) for the occurence of the black stripe of paint on SOME stators is that some stators had laminations that were slightly out of spec.They were machined after they were dipped in insulating varnish to allow them to fit the two halves of the alternator case.Then the machined area was painted black(rather than completely redipped)to prevent rust,reinsulate,and improve cosmetics.GM was in business to make money.Why would they add an extra step to the operation without a pressing reason?Delco was not in the fine jewelery business,so painting the center section black SOLELY for cosmetic reasons just does not make sense.All stators were dipped in a "caramel or honey" colored varnish,only those requiring "adjustment"got the black stripe.

[Chris E.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Chris, your Alt is clocked correctly, especially since it has been "Pirkleized".
The confusion lies in your pic, with the NTP configuration/orientation of the Red Wire and the Ribbed Rubber Cap not being properly fitted over the post, thus, appearing to be positioned too far inboard.
Refer to Rick's photo.
HaND

Mike, agreed. After that picture was taken many weeks ago, I pushed the boot down over the terminal.

That picture was the only one I had of the alternator installed, so I posted it. Sorry if it introduced additional confusion.

[Michael H.]

Re: Alternator housing orientation?

Our research on stator color goes past pictures(although it does include them) We have looked at literally thousands of stators(on cars, NOS items in "cans" that we have opened,on BOWTIE cars,etc.) We have also spent a great deal of time with literature(period GM and DELCO),factory line workers,line supervisors,and engineers.The reason I have been given(By an engineer who worked for Delco in the 60's) for the occurence of the black stripe of paint on SOME stators is that some stators had laminations that were slightly out of spec.They were machined after they were dipped in insulating varnish to allow them to fit the two halves of the alternator case.Then the machined area was painted black(rather than completely redipped)to prevent rust,reinsulate,and improve cosmetics.GM was in business to make money.Why would they add an extra step to the operation without a pressing reason?Delco was not in the fine jewelery business,so painting the center section black SOLELY for cosmetic reasons just does not make sense.All stators were dipped in a "caramel or honey" colored varnish,only those requiring "adjustment"got the black stripe.

That's not the story I got from Delco. Not even close, but I'm not going to argue the point, even if EVERY GM photo that shows an alternator or every untouched original we've seen has black stator ribs.
I think some of the old timers in this hobby, the guys that were around for decades, have a different opinion too.