to sleeve or not to sleeve

[Stephen R.]

I have 283 block that is currently 40 over. I was talking with my machinist and he suggested going to 60 over. I was thinking about sleeveing it. He stated that it would be $100 per cylinder plus sleeves and that they do all or none.
Other than the cost, what are the pros and cons of sleeveing?

I really want to get this rebuild correct. The car is a no shown, nice day, fun driver. The engine won't be used hard, but I want something in there that will last.

[Jack H.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

For a long time, a sleeved block was considered 'inferior' to one naturally bored... BUT, sleeve technology has come a LONG way, and IF the job is done right, the sleeved block can actually be BETTER than one naturally bored and honed.

That's because today's sleeve material is EXCELLENT and is typically more dense/durable than the factory original cast iron of the block. Plus, if the machinist does the job correctly, he can compensate for slight cylinder-to-cylinder 'skew' in the individual bores and put the cylinders dead nuts on in terms of their being orthagonal to the crank's center line.

But, doing the job IS expensive (compared to simply boring what you have) and properly installing the sleeves isn't something a lot of machinests have day-to-day experience with. They need to be properly fitted and step-bored for installation so they're NOT going to move/shift. So, we DO hear horror stories about what happened to this/that guy who went and sleeved all eight holes on his block!

If you're at 40-over, I don't think you're going to see any problems with stepping up to 60-over. It's generally, at 90-100+ over that complaints about 'hot engine' performance start to emerge... So, one way to look at it is you can pretty safely escape the sleeving cost for another day by using what you've got!

Last, you DO have another alternative and that's to build the engine to an 'in between' bore size... Piston size standards (15-over, 30-over, 40-over, 60-over) only really exist for the 'convenience' of the warehouse distribution channel (reduce the number of piston permutations that have to be maintained in inventory).

Most piston maufacturers WILL accept direct orders for 'hand selected' pistons... But, you give up any discount(s) that might be available from the warehouse distributors and pay quantity one list price + the mfgr's handling fee. Then, you'll have to wait for a production run instead of getting the parts off-the-shelf. But, 'unusual' sized pistons CAN be obtained...

I was looking at the same situation on my '71 350. It was at 40-over, when the #2 piston rod decided to 'swap' positions with its sister in the #1 hole. The rod broke and scored the wall biting to/through the water jacket! Yep, I was in the market for a sleeve job...

My machinest is a long time race guy with Ford, thin wall, experience. We talked about alternatives and he 'laughed'..."Why go all the way up to 60-over and throw away that much good 'meat' in your block?"

He analyzed the block and determined it would 'make' at 42.5-over with a single sleeve. That's what we did.

The hand selection fee for my odd sized pistons was a whooping $35 and the 'delay' was 40-days. But, she's been back together at 42.5-over for about five years now and runs STRONG. I've logged another 25K miles on the block without incident and the engine runs very cool...

[Clem Z.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

i would just bore it and if you want to be safe have the block sonic tested for wall thickness. if you decide to sleeve make sure they "step sleeve" the block and if they do not know what that means find a new shop. we bored 283 blocks to 4.00" several times with no problems after sonic testing

[Chris W.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

I have 283 block that is currently 40 over. I was talking with my machinist and he suggested going to 60 over. I was thinking about sleeveing it. He stated that it would be $100 per cylinder plus sleeves and that they do all or none.
Other than the cost, what are the pros and cons of sleeveing?

I really want to get this rebuild correct. The car is a no shown, nice day, fun driver. The engine won't be used hard, but I want something in there that will last.

If you have a early 283 block, (up thru 1961) I would not have a problem going .060 over. The earlier 283 blocks were thick in the cylinder areas unlike the early 327 blocks. I think some of the later 283 blocks cast in the later '60s may be a bit thinner. I have not had any problems in more 35 years of being in the business. The early 283 blocks have been bored .125 over with success bit I would not recomend that. If you have any concern at all, you can always have your block sonic tested to varify cylinder wall thickness but at .060, I do not think that is necessary. If it were a 327, I would definately have it sonic tested.

Your block can always be sleeved at a later date if you ware it out but usually, we do not put that many miles on these old cars. Use GOOD pistons, and watch the rods. They were not the best in these old engines. It sounds like you have a good machine shop that should give you good advice.

Good luck with your project.

Chris

[Stuart F.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

There were a gazillion 283's out there running .060" over back in the day - and they ran on for a long time. To have been successful at the drags in a stock class with a 283 small block, you had to have a 292 (legal). I campaigned one long and hard for several years, and it continued on long after I sold it to a friend who street drove it for many years after. Even the cheaters (more than us) ran 1/8" overbore 301's. Sleeves back in the 60's seldomed worked out. I had a buddy sleeve a Poncho out to get 500+ inches and the sleeves never sealed. I was with him on a breakin or breakup run to Chicago, and we kept having to add water. He finally gave up and tried to blow it up cutting in all six carbs at over 120mph with bald U.S. Royal tires! Wow! That was scary! It fish tailed all over the place going under a rest stop restaurant on the tollway. The engine, btw, was in a 58 Corvette.

[Timothy B.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

My 63 block is .060 and I have never had a problem. I spoke with a local machinest about sleeves and he mentioned step sleeves but told me I was crazy and that .060 is fine with a 327.

Seems like different opinions from different experences, I would like to restore to original bore but the car runs fine and no overheat.

[Jack H.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

"Seems like different opinions from different experences, I would like to restore to original bore but the car runs fine and no overheat."

And some day you may have that 'opportunity'...heck it's only a $1000 or so job! The question is when do you bite the bullet to keep the original block up and running?

BTW, I've had more than one original block fully sleeved and they came out GREAT! But, when/if you walk down this road, wait for jaws to DROP at the various parts warehouses when you try to source a set of NOMINAL sized pistons!

They won't believe that's what you really want/needneed. AND, I doubt any will have an inventory position on parts that are considered OEM/Mfgr only applicable...

[Edward B.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

Unless you're dealing with an original engine that "must" be preserved relative to its chassis go ahead and bore it .060" over. The chances are high that everything will work the way it should. It is only if there is something really special about this block that the cost of sleeving could be justified.

[Michael H.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

i would just bore it and if you want to be safe have the block sonic tested for wall thickness. if you decide to sleeve make sure they "step sleeve" the block and if they do not know what that means find a new shop. we bored 283 blocks to 4.00" several times with no problems after sonic testing

I agree with Clem, and others. Taking an older 283" out .060" is absolutely not a problem. I know of quite a few 283's that went .125" to 301 years ago and are still running perfectly today. I've done several myself.

Why spend a ton of cash for no reason and also take a chance the sleeve operation may fail?

[Stephen R.]

Re: to sleeve or not to sleeve

Thanks guys for all of the good advice. One thing I didn't realize was that a sleeveing operation could fail. I kind a thought that they were pretty much bullet proof. That and the cost makes .060 over a much more realistic solution..