2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

[Chris W.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

Rick,

When I lived in SC, back in the '70s, I knew a fellow who had a couple of sets of 2 bar knock-offs. If memory serves, the KO adapters for these wheels were a gear drive configuration as opposed to the pin drive configuration used in production.

Same guy also had a set of 14" KO wheels. What were these for? Who knows.... Corvair maybe?

Bottom line, even if they never made it into production, there are some sets "out there".

Jim

At a swap meet recently, I bought a Two Bar "Nut" and adaptor. The center emblem says "Chevrolet" and has a Bow Tie Emblem in the center. The adaptor is gear Drive and NOT Pin Drive. This all appears to be old original stuff. What do I have? Is it Corvair or ? Should I put it in a Glass Display case or use it as a door stop?

Years ago, in the mid '70s, I bought a set of Two Bar "Nuts" with seperate center emblems. It appeared the Nuts were GM but I am almost sure the emblems were Reproductions. I had a restored '63 FI Daytona Blue Roadster that I showed in the early '80s with K.O. Wheels using these Two bar "Nuts". It really looked Great. I took the car to the Regional NCRS Meet at Bend Oregon in 1988. Lots of comments even though there was a question if this was really correct.

Again, any comments as to what I recently bought would be appreciated.

Chris

[Michael H.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

Under two photos of '63 cars on page 157: "...Chevrolet promoted the P48 wheels...in its publicity photographs but never officially delivered any cars wth the wheels.".

So, in my opinion, any '63 Sting Ray with knock-off wheels and two-bar spinners would be a recreation of the cars at the fall '62 European car shows.

Here's a pic of an engineering build. There are many very obvious items on this car that indicate that it was well before the 25 pilot line 63's that were built later.
It has the 1st design nuts, part number 3831625-6, that did not have a separate center cap. Instead, the center was machined along with the rest of the nut. It was all one piece.

If I remember correctly, my GM ORIGINAL complete 63 AIM also shows this early 3831625-6 part number but later copies do not.

[Jack H.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

That's confirmed! The '63 that was shipped for the first of these shows (London) is alive and in 'captivity' by an NCRS UK Chapter member. While this particular car does have a pilot line VIN/Trim tag on it, it was NOT built on the line in St. Louis!

It was hand built in Detroit and sports a number of SO (shop order) tags and the current owner has recovered the SO drawing package to support it. Yes, it DID arrive in England with 2-bar KO wheels, but it was not a bona fide 'production' car...

[Steven B.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

Without digging out my old VHS tapes I believe the cars Thompson and McDonald drove at Milford and were in the interview with ZAD had 2 bars---IIRC.

[Dan A.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

Here's a pic of an engineering build. There are many very obvious items on this car that indicate that it was well before the 25 pilot line 63's that were built later.

I have a press release for the 1963 Corvette Sting Ray dated for release on the morning of September 23 stating the all-new Corvette will go on sale Friday September 28.

There are 5 black and white 8x10 glossy photos of a coupe and a convertible with captions showing 10 views of the 2 cars. One view of the coupe does not show the wheels. All of the remaining views show the coupe and the convertible with knock offs. The knock offs in each photo have the 3 bar nut or spinner.

Two of the convertible views are identical to the 2 photos Michael Hanson has posted above.

[Dan A.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

If I remember correctly, my GM ORIGINAL complete 63 AIM also shows this early 3831625-6 part number but later copies do not.

My 1963 assembly manual only shows the 2 bar nut 3819543-4. The release date appears to be 6-12-62 and REF. PRELIM 1
L-.61761

The REVISION RECORD shows that the adapter changed from 3925689-90 to 3847763-64 dated 5-3-63.

The wheel 3837852 changed to 3847761 but is not dated or have an ECR or DR.

[Michael H.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

My 1963 assembly manual only shows the 2 bar nut 3819543-4. The release date appears to be 6-12-62 and REF. PRELIM 1
L-.61761

The REVISION RECORD shows that the adapter changed from 3925689-90 to 3847763-64 dated 5-3-63.

The wheel 3837852 changed to 3847761 but is not dated or have an ECR or DR.

I think the reason your copy of the AIM doesn't show the previous numbers is because it's not a copy of the original sheet.
If you look at the revision box at the bottom, you'll probably see that the first item is not revision number one. As I remember, it's the first revision on the second page, or revised page for P48 KO wheels.
If all of the spaces on an AIM sheet are used, (1 through 5 for the 63 AIM) there will be a new sheet drawn. That's what the reproduction AIM has. The original sheet would have shown the first revision as number one.

I have an original GM 63 AIM and as I remember, it includes the original sheet with revisions one through five. It also includes a later sheet that shows the last wheel/adapter and nut used for 63.

[Dan A.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

My 1963 assembly manual only shows the 2 bar nut 3819543-4. The release date appears to be 6-12-62 and REF. PRELIM 1
L-.61761

The REVISION RECORD shows that the adapter changed from 3925689-90 to 3847763-64 dated 5-3-63.

The wheel 3837852 changed to 3847761 but is not dated or have an ECR or DR.

[Loren L.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

The early design K-H KO wheels used a gear drive locking mechanism - triangle notches that fit within each other on the adapter and the wheel; as ultimately intended for production with a two bar spinner.
Enter the owner of the Dayton wire wheel company who had a little thing known as a patent on such gear drive attaching process, asking when he might expect his first royalty check and what figure they would be using to compute such amount. (He was already receiving such monies from the Zenith wire wheel company.)
The end result was the K-H pin drive AND a listing on the Corvair option list for a set of KO wire wheels purchased from the Dayton wheel company.
No gear drive, no 2 bar.

[Dan A.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

I think the reason your copy of the AIM doesn't show the previous numbers is because it's not a copy of the original sheet.
If all of the spaces on an AIM sheet are used, (1 through 5 for the 63 AIM) there will be a new sheet drawn. That's what the reproduction AIM has. The original sheet would have shown the first revision as number one.

Michael I believe you are right my SHEET 1.00 shows revisions 6 to 9. The AIMS I am quoting from are not the typical reprints from the mid 70's to today. They came from GM's Canadian Head Office in Oshawa, Ontario Canada. Al Grenning and John Hinckley felt they are both genuine GM.

[Michael H.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

The REVISION RECORD also shows a change in the wheel part number dated 6-21 or 23 or 28-63, the day is not clear to me. The number 3847761 was changed to 3852552. The ECR was 56437.

The blueprint that I have for the first 3 bar nut is part number 3831625-6 so that would make four different numbers for 63.

The 3853795-6 would be the last PRODUCTION nut part numbers that was used through the end of KO wheels in 66.
There would be one more "service" part number released in the early 70's.

[Michael H.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

The early design K-H KO wheels used a gear drive locking mechanism - triangle notches that fit within each other on the adapter and the wheel; as ultimately intended for production with a two bar spinner.
Enter the owner of the Dayton wire wheel company who had a little thing known as a patent on such gear drive attaching process, asking when he might expect his first royalty check and what figure they would be using to compute such amount. (He was already receiving such monies from the Zenith wire wheel company.)
The end result was the K-H pin drive AND a listing on the Corvair option list for a set of KO wire wheels purchased from the Dayton wheel company.
No gear drive, no 2 bar.

Yup, and add to that the fact that the gear drive wheels were falling off the car pretty much brought the design to an end for the Corvette.

[Michael H.]

Re: 2 Bar Knock Off Wheels?

Michael I believe you are right my SHEET 1.00 shows revisions 6 to 9. The AIMS I am quoting from are not the typical reprints from the mid 70's to today. They came from GM's Canadian Head Office in Oshawa, Ontario Canada. Al Grenning and John Hinckley felt they are both genuine GM.

I was lucky. My original GM copy of the 63 AIM still has most of the pages that were supposed to be replaced along with the new/latest pages. It probably has 50 more pages than most reprint/reproduction AIM's.
It's also more complete than the repro copies because later revisions were shown.

I also have a big pile of 63 KO wheel NPC's from GM files (Notice of Production Change) that show the part numbers/parts that were changed/replaced and when it was to occur.
You would not feel at all well if you knew what the NPC instructed engineering and the assembly plant to do with all the early KO wheels, adapters and spinners that had a stop order.