1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

[Gary V.]

1969 350/350 L46 built October 1969.

I'm the 2nd owner, owned since 1970. Nothing was touched by the original owner. Now for my question.

The emission sticker has the same code (CF) and part number (3956682) as all of the ones seen in all of the vendors listings. What is different about mine vs the vendor offerings is the timing setting for the 350/370 HP on mine is 8 degrees BTDC vs the 4 degrees on all of the aftermarket offerings.

Does anyone reproduce this sticker with the 8 degrees timing ?

Viz

[Gary V.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

......Does anyone reproduce this sticker with the 8 degrees timing ?

Viz

No responses, so I guess the answer is "No".

Just out of curiosity, those of you who have your late 1969's judged, has this difference in the stickers ever been identified ?

I also am puzzled why Chevrolet produced 2 different stickers with the same part number ?

Wiser folks than I, please comment.

Viz

[Terry M.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

I don't know about wiser, but:
There was a story in The Restorer back in the late 1980's (1985 to 1989 range) about the LT1 emissions labels, and more specifically about LT1 timing. We have been there and documented that.

There are at least several other, more obvious, means of identifying an original emissions sticker for judging purposes. The crispness of the font is the easiest for me at this stage of my life.

[Steven H.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

Gary

In the midst of my searching on my 11/28 built car; someone did tell me of a difference in the sticker codes on ours not being CF. Correct or not; I don't know, what the code was and where he told me I can't remember. Sorry.

I could only find where my original was by sanding the area; the only thing I can tell you about that is that it was installed crooked just like the trim plate. I put a CF on crooked like the original until I can figure out the fact as well.

Oh, I also remember no one Reman'ed the alternate code and is why I went temp on CF.

Steve

[Terry M.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

Back when I was doing the research for the story I mentioned above, I found an alternate source for some of the emissions labels. I can't now remember if it was 1969 or early 1970, but it was a source for the Camaro restorers. One of those labels has a Camaro engine listed, and a fellow in Georgia was reproducing them for the Camaro market. He didn't advertise in Corvette circles, so the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing.

Dick Whittington knows that guy -- but it all just might be historical information by now.

[Gary V.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

I don't know about wiser, but:
There was a story in The Restorer back in the late 1980's (1985 to 1989 range) about the LT1 emissions labels, and more specifically about LT1 timing. We have been there and documented that.

There are at least several other, more obvious, means of identifying an original emissions sticker for judging purposes. The crispness of the font is the easiest for me at this stage of my life.

And a large mangifying glass for me . Mine is original, but it's far from perfect. The edges are curling but it's still legible.

Thanks Terry. I'll see if I can find the Restorer article, if I know where to look for the Restorer that is. While this isn't an LT1, the timing for the 350HP and 370HP is the same on the sticker, you're correct.

Gary

In the midst of my searching on my 11/28 built car; someone did tell me of a difference in the sticker codes on ours not being CF. Correct or not; I don't know, what the code was and where he told me I can't remember. Sorry.

I could only find where my original was by sanding the area; the only thing I can tell you about that is that it was installed crooked just like the trim plate. I put a CF on crooked like the original until I can figure out the fact as well.

Oh, I also remember no one Reman'ed the alternate code and is why I went temp on CF.

Steve

Steve, our codes, well, at least mine, can't say what Chevrolet did after mine was built, is CF for sure. That's what's so confusing about this, the fact that the same code and part number was used with two entirely different timing specs. Many years ago (1980's) I spoke to Osborn Reproductions about this, and he said if I sent him the sticker they'd see about reproducing it. I didn't want to remove it from the car unless I knew for sure I had an accurate replacement in hand.

So I guess this isn't a judging issue ? Still, I'd like to have the correct sticker. For now, my original one stays on.

Gary

[Steven H.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

Gary

I'm thinking this guy suggested that mine was not a CF; I've looked back in all my threads and can't find it, I'm now afraid it was a PM I've deleted. Pretty sure it was on here; so maybe he'll find this thread and repost.

As for my timing; it probably won't be factory correct

[Gary V.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

Back when I was doing the research for the story I mentioned above, I found an alternate source for some of the emissions labels. I can't now remember if it was 1969 or early 1970, but it was a source for the Camaro restorers. One of those labels has a Camaro engine listed, and a fellow in Georgia was reproducing them for the Camaro market. He didn't advertise in Corvette circles, so the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing.

Dick Whittington knows that guy -- but it all just might be historical information by now.

The ones I've found online (and some for Corvettes too) say "Early ("Before 7/69)" for the 3956682 CF label.

3970119 DJ are the ones listed for "After 7/69", but, as I've woefully mentioned, that's not "entirely" accurate.

There must be a few more late 1969 survivors out there who also have a CF (with 8 degree timing) decal. Perhaps collectively we can get someone interested in reproducing them ?

Gary

[Steven H.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

[Mark D.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

The link below will take you to a very accommodating fellow that the Camaro crowd thinks very highly of. He will make a decal from an original if available or he will, if you desire, change the timing data from the current reproduction to make your situation 'more better.' His decals are very detailed.

http://www.ecsautomotive.com/

[Tom H.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

I can't find the restorer article but did find a good one written by Lance Martin from California on the 70 emission decals. That was all I could locate.

[Gary V.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

The link below will take you to a very accommodating fellow that the Camaro crowd thinks very highly of. He will make a decal from an original if available or he will, if you desire, change the timing data from the current reproduction to make your situation 'more better.' His decals are very detailed.

http://www.ecsautomotive.com/

Great information, thanks Mark !!!!!!

[Terry M.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

That might be it, Tom. Was it in the 1985 to 1989 range that I mentioned?

[Mark D.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

Great information, thanks Mark !!!!!!

My pleasure, you're welcome. I hope this guy can help you.

Mark

This link will take you to a thread about ECS that was posted on the Super Car site.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB10&Number=369245&Searchpage=4&Main=368970&Words=ecs&topic=&Search=true#Post369245

[Tom H.]

Re: 1969 Emissions Sticker CF 3956682 - Early vs Late Difference

That might be it, Tom. Was it in the 1985 to 1989 range that I mentioned?

I'm not sure, Terry. It is in the encyclopedia of restorers. It has no date. I would be happy to fax to anyone who needs it.