GM

[Wayne B.]

Re: GM

Yeah Wayne, I'd much rather stick the money in the pockets of some fata** CEO that already has more money than he knows what to do with or someone like China or Korea so we can help them become stronger. Or the Saudis if they decide to get into the market. WAIT, aren't we bitchen already about lining the pockets of those oil barons?? I don't believe it is the answer for our government to become the automaker CEO's but I also don't think we completely wipe out the US automakers and buy foreign cars. But if I or ANY of the rest of us knew the right answer we would be alot richer than we are.

Actually Henry, I would rather stick that money in that CEO's pocket or any of the rest of them if they give me the vehicle I want at a price I am willing to pay. I just listen to The One give his speech about it and he started by saying he wasn't going to be making decisions for the company then proceeded to do just the opposite, tell how he was going to be sure the right kind of car was built, the right size, the right mileage (the right special interest group demand). The central planning commisars are going to tell you what kind of car you can have, not the market saying what kind of car to build. Oh, and if you won't buy them direct you will be taxed for the new expanded government fleet of said vehicles The One is ordering up. And a Union given a car company? This whole thing is about saving the UAW not GM.

So what if GM went bankrupt. You think that vacuum wouldn't be filled by someone that could give the public what they want at a price they would pay? Without the obstruction and expense of a UAW? GM already builds those very kinds of cars in Europe and the East, just ship them over...oh wait, gotta keep the UAW going. Other manufacturers do just fine without the UAW or the government and now both are going to tell you what you can drive. I can get a full size Honda truck, or a full size SUV from Lexus etc, all brought to you by companies that build what the market wants not what the central planners order. What's next? Gray uniforms and little red books for everyone? Nope, not a nickle of my money is voluntarily going to prop up that.

[Duke W.]

Re: GM

The trouble is that one way or another - publically or behind the scenes, the federal government is going to be calling the shots on future product decisions because they will be providing the tens of billions in capital to redesign and retool the product line to meet the recently established 2016 CAFE and other regulations.

Given the Corvette's low volume and low profit contribution, even if it produced higher profit margin than any other product line, I just don't see the government willing put capital into a low volume niche product.

With the demise of Pontiac and Saturn's uncertain fate (Will someone buy it or will it just be shut down?) the Solstace and Sky may be dead as early as next year.

If there is a C7 it will have to be smaller and lighter than the current model with a smaller engine, which means something closer to the current Solstace/Sky than the current C6 - maybe with a small V8 engine if GM tools one up for the trucks, but more likely a four or six-cylinder engine.

The current model can yield 30 MPG in steady speed freeway cruising, but city mileage is in the high teens, and given the way the EPA computes CAFE, which heavily weights the city mileage, the current model is not sufficiently economical to fit in with the 2016 CAFE requirements.

So if you want a new Corvette - a real one with a V8 engine, better buy one in the next few years.

Duke

[Richard D.]

Re: GM

OK....with GM potentially filing CHapter 11 by Monday, where does that put the Corvette plant in Bowling Green? Are we out of business or still producing Corvettes? We can't let the Japs take over that !!!! THe headlights are already slanted enough!

Nice post. Any other ethnic groups you trying to win over?

[Henry S.]

Re: GM

Actually Henry, I would rather stick that money in that CEO's pocket or any of the rest of them if they give me the vehicle I want at a price I am willing to pay. I just listen to The One give his speech about it and he started by saying he wasn't going to be making decisions for the company then proceeded to do just the opposite, tell how he was going to be sure the right kind of car was built, the right size, the right mileage (the right special interest group demand). The central planning commisars are going to tell you what kind of car you can have, not the market saying what kind of car to build. Oh, and if you won't buy them direct you will be taxed for the new expanded government fleet of said vehicles The One is ordering up. And a Union given a car company? This whole thing is about saving the UAW not GM.

So what if GM went bankrupt. You think that vacuum wouldn't be filled by someone that could give the public what they want at a price they would pay? Without the obstruction and expense of a UAW? GM already builds those very kinds of cars in Europe and the East, just ship them over...oh wait, gotta keep the UAW going. Other manufacturers do just fine without the UAW or the government and now both are going to tell you what you can drive. I can get a full size Honda truck, or a full size SUV from Lexus etc, all brought to you by companies that build what the market wants not what the central planners order. What's next? Gray uniforms and little red books for everyone? Nope, not a nickle of my money is voluntarily going to prop up that.

It's your right to spend your money where you want. If you want to send it to China or Japan or Korea have at it if that will make YOU feel better. Then just don't bitch when the majority of the country is working (IF they can get a job) for minimum wage. THEN most may not even be able to afford a Vega.

[Duke W.]

Re: GM

Most overseas nameplate cars sold in the US are built in North America with a high content of North American supplied parts. Example: GM supplies the base four-cylinder Camry engine block to Toyota!

If you're still a xenophobe, you're living in the seventies. Wake up! The car business is "globalized", so manufacturers build many of their products in the market in which they are sold, especially if they are high volume. So the Japanese OEMs build a lot of products in both Europe and North America.

And if you think that an overseas headquartered company is going to take over the world you can buy their ADRs on US stock exchanges and get a piece of the action.

Personnally I'd rather buy a car from a well managed publically owned company, regardless of their origins, than I would from an outfit run by any government.

Duke

[Wayne B.]

Re: GM

Well put Duke. When it comes to Corvette living or dying it would be nice if its profitability were a major factor but unfortunately when you have a government involved you get politics injected and I wonder if profitability would triumph over the influence of special interests and junk science. I doubt it given what we are seeing.

[Henry S.]

Re: GM

Most overseas nameplate cars sold in the US are built in North America with a high content of North American supplied parts. Example: GM supplies the base four-cylinder Camry engine block to Toyota!

If you're still a xenophobe, you're living in the seventies. Wake up! The car business is "globalized", so manufacturers build many of their products in the market in which they are sold, especially if they are high volume. So the Japanese OEMs build a lot of products in both Europe and North America.

And if you think that an overseas headquartered company is going to take over the world you can buy their ADRs on US stock exchanges and get a piece of the action.

Personnally I'd rather buy a car from a well managed publically owned company, regardless of their origins, than I would from an outfit run by any government.

Duke

Boy you missed that one by a mile Duke! But your statement about being xenophobic doesn't even deserve a response.

I would think the majority of us that are retired benefited and profited from the good will of our friends, neighbors and fellow Americans. Whatever field we were in most of us were able to make a living because whatever product , goods or service we did, it was paid for by other Americans. There wasn't so much the "I" influence as there was the "we". You are correct in that we have definitely "globalized" in just about every product made today and plenty of American companies have profited greatly by that. However when given a choice I will continue to look for and seek out those businesses, small and large, that offer products made in America with American goods. As you have stated before here on the board, use Google to find an answer. If we all Google for American made products you may be surprised at what you find. Maybe that "whatever" you had to buy at Wal-mart IS still available from some American small business.

[Michael A.]

Re: GM

It's your right to spend your money where you want. If you want to send it to China or Japan or Korea have at it if that will make YOU feel better. Then just don't bitch when the majority of the country is working (IF they can get a job) for minimum wage. THEN most may not even be able to afford a Vega.

Doesn't Duke own a Vega?

[Henry S.]

Re: GM

Doesn't Duke own a Vega?

uhoh, OOPS

[Duke W.]

Re: GM

...a Cosworth Vega - and I happily challenge any essentially stock vintage Corvette to ten laps at the 2.5 mile Willow Springs "big track" for a meaningful wager.

A lot of name brand sports car drivers were humbled by that car over the years.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2007/11/01/hmn_feature17.html

Duke

[Jim S.]

www.pbgc.gov.

[Henry S.]

Re: GM

...a Cosworth Vega - and I happily challenge any essentially stock vintage Corvette to ten laps at the 2.5 mile Willow Springs "big track" for a meaningful wager.

A lot of name brand sports car drivers were humbled by that car over the years.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2007/11/01/hmn_feature17.html

Duke

Ok maybe they can only afford a Pinto.

[Michael A.]

Re: GM

...a Cosworth Vega - and I happily challenge any essentially stock vintage Corvette to ten laps at the 2.5 mile Willow Springs "big track" for a meaningful wager.

A lot of name brand sports car drivers were humbled by that car over the years.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2007/11/01/hmn_feature17.html

Duke

Duke
Thanks for the offer but I'm not one to take on a suckers bet. A small, light car with good handling will tear up a big lumbering car, especially on the right course. As I recall part of the original Mini's legacy is winning at Monte Carlo in the early 60's against the big, bad Ferrari's and more.

About 10 years ago I was living in Northern Ireland and was returning home from a car show in my 66 SB roadster. We were on narrow, winding two lane roads with no shoulders. A vintage Mini passed me and I attempted in vain to keep up with it as it buzzed through the countryside. I was humbled - but still had fun driving home with the top down.

The Cosworth Vega was quite a car when it came out. I recall a friend who had one and enjoyed smoking the psuedo muscle cars of the era on just about any winding road out there.

When I saw Henry's reference to the Vega, and having read some of the other exchange in this chain, I just couldn't resist stirring the pot.

Take care Duke and keep posting. I really enjoy your posts and have learned a lot.

Cheers,

[Terry M.]

Re: GM

Well this ought to get some people's panties in a wad:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_bi_ge/us_automakers

[Wayne B.]

Re: GM

yes it says it saves 3,000 jobs...well, till 2010 anyway, let's see, this is 2009...let me get my calculator out. Wonder why they didn't sell the Volt plant? There's such a huge crowd of consumers clamoring for that little wonder car. At least as many as there are consumers clamoring for a Fiat in their driveway. Gotta love the government running business.