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CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

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  • Patrick H.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • December 1, 1989
    • 11643

    #16
    Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

    Originally posted by Charles McGettrick (37465)
    Thanks Patrick for the input. I am curious if others have had the same experience. What was CC going to modify on their pipes?
    That's what Waldron's (who makes just the mufflers, which are absolutely correct) told me regarding his latest (at the time) conversation with Jerry at Corvette Central.

    I suspect that Jerry will be in Florida if anyone wishes to ask him about it.

    Patrick
    Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
    71 "deer modified" coupe
    72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
    2008 coupe
    Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

    Comment

    • Erik S.
      Very Frequent User
      • January 1, 2005
      • 407

      #17
      Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

      Ok - bit lost here; so both Gardner AND CC are trying to duplicate the N11 exhaust, and for now it seems that the Gardner system is more close in terms of pipe configuration - is this the correct preliminary conclusion?

      Erik

      Comment

      • Grant W.
        Very Frequent User
        • December 1, 1987
        • 407

        #18
        Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

        Originally posted by Erik Stroeve (43069)
        Ok - bit lost here; so both Gardner AND CC are trying to duplicate the N11 exhaust, and for now it seems that the Gardner system is more close in terms of pipe configuration - is this the correct preliminary conclusion?

        Erik
        Hi Eric
        Bottom line is Gardners has the correct folds in the bends and the same N11 muffler as originals.

        Look at their web site. They have originals beside their repops. At Corvette central look at their pipes as it just has a smooth bend which they have had in the past and continue selling the non folds in the bends on their one piece welded system which original production pipes has these folds.

        Corvette Central started making the one piece welded system last year or so. Before that everyone was selling pieced sets. Ie mid section clamped to the muffler.

        Since Corvette Central was selling the one piece system they got someone to reproduce the "N11" muffler. Some say it is not the same as the off road sound. I have a feeling the supplier just made one type of muffler for their entire line just to make things easier. Making a standard muffler and an off road muffler cost money!!!

        So comes in Gardner Exhaust as everyone is asking for the correct muffler system with the correct folds in the bends etc etc etc. Gardner Exhaust has done that.
        They are now selling complete systems, welded mid section pipes to the mufflers. Their "N11" off roads mufflers are like the original Off Roads from GM. They took an original off road muffler, dissected it and made it the same. Only thing different is there is No embossed W on the muffler as it is copy righted.
        I have sent Eric my original 68 front pipes and 69 2 inch front and rear mid section pipes 4 sp and auto set ups for him to duplicate and those should be ready very very soon.
        So look on Gardners web site and better yet send him an email and he will help you out.
        Thanks, grant

        Eric Gardner
        Gardner Exhaust Systems
        www.gardnerexhaust.com
        P (845) 758-8003

        Comment

        • Pat M.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • April 1, 2006
          • 1575

          #19
          Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

          Originally posted by Grant Wong (12133)
          I have sent Eric my original 68 front pipes and 69 2 inch front and rear mid section pipes 4 sp and auto set ups for him to duplicate and those should be ready very very soon.
          Thanks Grant. I really wanted, and intended, to (eventually) send Gardiner my 2" NOS pipes to reproduce, but it was a pain since they are presently in use on my 70. You have saved me a great deal of effort, and to the benefit the entire hobby. Salute!

          Comment

          • Grant W.
            Very Frequent User
            • December 1, 1987
            • 407

            #20
            Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

            Originally posted by Pat Moresi (45581)
            Thanks Grant. I really wanted, and intended, to (eventually) send Gardiner my 2" NOS pipes to reproduce, but it was a pain since they are presently in use on my 70. You have saved me a great deal of effort, and to the benefit the entire hobby. Salute!
            Hi Pat
            It was actually you that made me send the 2 inch NOS pipes to Eric. Eric was waiting for the pipes but why make things harder for you. I just took the initiative get the pipes to him and have it available for fellow corvette owners who want it done right the first time.
            I still have a set of one piece muffler pipes from CC or possibly Allens and they are not the same. Gonna sell them....anybody??

            Spend your money right the first time and not 3 times around.

            So Pat, give your self a pat on the shoulder!!!! "to the benefit the entire hobby"
            Thanks, Grant

            Comment

            • Patrick H.
              Beyond Control Poster
              • December 1, 1989
              • 11643

              #21
              Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

              Originally posted by Grant Wong (12133)
              Hi Eric
              Bottom line is Gardners has the correct folds in the bends and the same N11 muffler as originals.

              Look at their web site. They have originals beside their repops. At Corvette central look at their pipes as it just has a smooth bend which they have had in the past and continue selling the non folds in the bends on their one piece welded system which original production pipes has these folds.

              Corvette Central started making the one piece welded system last year or so. Before that everyone was selling pieced sets. Ie mid section clamped to the muffler.

              Since Corvette Central was selling the one piece system they got someone to reproduce the "N11" muffler. Some say it is not the same as the off road sound. I have a feeling the supplier just made one type of muffler for their entire line just to make things easier. Making a standard muffler and an off road muffler cost money!!!

              So comes in Gardner Exhaust as everyone is asking for the correct muffler system with the correct folds in the bends etc etc etc. Gardner Exhaust has done that.
              They are now selling complete systems, welded mid section pipes to the mufflers. Their "N11" off roads mufflers are like the original Off Roads from GM. They took an original off road muffler, dissected it and made it the same. Only thing different is there is No embossed W on the muffler as it is copy righted.
              I have sent Eric my original 68 front pipes and 69 2 inch front and rear mid section pipes 4 sp and auto set ups for him to duplicate and those should be ready very very soon.
              So look on Gardners web site and better yet send him an email and he will help you out.
              Thanks, grant

              Eric Gardner
              Gardner Exhaust Systems
              www.gardnerexhaust.com
              P (845) 758-8003
              Grant,

              While I admire your efforts to promote correct exhaust systems, I would also ask that you be sure you have correct facts about systems other than the Gardner system.

              - Corvette Central has been making "one piece" welded systems for years as have other suppliers. so, it is not correct to say that "everyone was selling pieced sets" and inferring that they were only making pieced sets. The system on my own 72 is almost 9 years old, and came from them, installed by the prior owner.

              - The new off-road exhaust system sold by Corvette Central was developed in a totally different fashion than you surmise. The owner of Gardner Exhaust decided to make correct off-road mufflers after discussions with some NCRS members here in Michigan. So, he obtained blueprints AND dissected original mufflers. Doing so he was able to reproduce the mufflers - including internals - exactly like the originals. However, for various reasons he decided not to make an entire Corvette exhaust system and approached Corvette Central. Since that time CC has added the correct mufflers to their system and as last reported was working on changing their pipe bends to more accurately reflect an original system.

              So, we have two suppliers that concurrently developed correct offroad exhaust mufflers for Corvettes. Gardner has also developed the correctly bent pipes and I can't say what the status is of Corvette Central's system. I would suggest, however, that they likely sound very much the same if both really do have correctly configured mufflers.

              No, I don't have any personal stake in Gardner's or Corvette Central. I have spoken with the owner of Gardner's, however, and had a good conversation with him regarding his mufflers.

              I hope that helps.

              Patrick
              Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
              71 "deer modified" coupe
              72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
              2008 coupe
              Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

              Comment

              • John H.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • December 1, 1997
                • 16513

                #22
                Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                Originally posted by Michael Hanson (4067)
                Out of curiousity, who was the original supplier?
                Arvin was the original supplier of the N-11 exhaust system; Walker did all the others.

                Comment

                • Grant W.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • December 1, 1987
                  • 407

                  #23
                  Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                  Originally posted by Patrick Hulst (16386)
                  Grant,

                  While I admire your efforts to promote correct exhaust systems, I would also ask that you be sure you have correct facts about systems other than the Gardner system.

                  - Corvette Central has been making "one piece" welded systems for years as have other suppliers. so, it is not correct to say that "everyone was selling pieced sets" and inferring that they were only making pieced sets. The system on my own 72 is almost 9 years old, and came from them, installed by the prior owner.

                  - The new off-road exhaust system sold by Corvette Central was developed in a totally different fashion than you surmise. The owner of Gardner Exhaust decided to make correct off-road mufflers after discussions with some NCRS members here in Michigan. So, he obtained blueprints AND dissected original mufflers. Doing so he was able to reproduce the mufflers - including internals - exactly like the originals. However, for various reasons he decided not to make an entire Corvette exhaust system and approached Corvette Central. Since that time CC has added the correct mufflers to their system and as last reported was working on changing their pipe bends to more accurately reflect an original system.

                  So, we have two suppliers that concurrently developed correct offroad exhaust mufflers for Corvettes. Gardner has also developed the correctly bent pipes and I can't say what the status is of Corvette Central's system. I would suggest, however, that they likely sound very much the same if both really do have correctly configured mufflers.

                  No, I don't have any personal stake in Gardner's or Corvette Central. I have spoken with the owner of Gardner's, however, and had a good conversation with him regarding his mufflers.

                  I hope that helps.

                  Patrick
                  Hi Patrick
                  I do agree with you in your comments to a degree. Many Many years ago I was looking for the correct system for my 68. None had the correct folds. It was all smooth. The "folds" in the bends most top vendors didn't have them.
                  I contacted them in asking for a one piece system and they said none available. Was I looking at the wrong vendors??? Also they didn't want my originals to replicate it as it was a cost factor. "Too expensive" to make, It doesn't warrant reproducing it. That was their reply.
                  So hanging on the pipes and reading the threads about Gardners Exhaust System it was noted they make the most "correct" pipes and he was looking for NOS original Corvette pipes to reproduce. I contacted them and they were willing to give it a shot. At least I wasn't shut out from the other vendors.
                  Eric made the decision to get my pipes and do something about it. So the bottom line is the Exhaust systems will be correct as possible for the anal restorer like me. Unless you can find a set of NOS one piece welded GM 68 B/B pipes/mufflers system let me know. I had a quote from a seller 3 years ago for 5K for the pair. Sorry not going to spend that much.
                  By me sending the 68 and 69 pipes to Eric, it is just one step closer for someone wanting something closer to original exhaust system for their car.
                  People can buy any exhaust system as they feel fit for their car. Folds or non folds.
                  I just wanted the correct folds.
                  Thanks, Grant

                  Comment

                  • Patrick H.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • December 1, 1989
                    • 11643

                    #24
                    Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                    Originally posted by Grant Wong (12133)
                    Many Many years ago I was looking for the correct system for my 68. None had the correct folds. It was all smooth. The "folds" in the bends most top vendors didn't have them.
                    I contacted them in asking for a one piece system and they said none available. Was I looking at the wrong vendors??? Also they didn't want my originals to replicate it as it was a cost factor. "Too expensive" to make, It doesn't warrant reproducing it. That was their reply.

                    Thanks, Grant
                    Grant,

                    My comments were not incorrect; you've changed the story.

                    In the previous post you said that no one made one piece welded systems, which is not correct. Now you say that no one made the correct folds that you wanted, and that was the issue. Which was it?

                    You are right in that no one previous to Gardner has duplicated the correct folds, and if that was your problem with previous systems then that is fine. Just be sure that you say it was the folds, not the "one piece welded" factor that disappointed you with previously available systems.

                    The incorrectness of previous exhausts (other than NOS) has disappointed many of us. However, I'm happy to have had systems available that fit and functioned especially well. That won't stop me, though, from waiting to see if someone makes a correctly welded and bended system for my 72 and installing that in place of what is currently there.

                    Patrick
                    Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
                    71 "deer modified" coupe
                    72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
                    2008 coupe
                    Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

                    Comment

                    • Alan D.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • January 1, 2005
                      • 2038

                      #25
                      Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                      Well unless CC has changed their computer for the driver's side front pipe it's not close. Needed some front pipes for my N11 system and ordered them, right side fits, but left side was just NO Way! Calls to CC and many pictures comparing the two resulted in - The Computer is Programmed and does not make mistakes.

                      Having access to GM service replacements for 64 N11 and offering to correct CC pipes resulted in less than any interest, I now buy elsewhere. Everyone has an off day and we all have stories about vendors that believe they are perfect, however I constantly find the other guy who is willing to listen and change to make their product better.

                      See photo of the differences on the front left pipe - have been told that if one orders a complete exhaust system from CC it will fit, however the piece meal approach does not work. Just FYI
                      Last edited by Alan D.; June 16, 2010, 07:23 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Grant W.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • December 1, 1987
                        • 407

                        #26
                        Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                        Originally posted by Patrick Hulst (16386)
                        Grant,

                        My comments were not incorrect; you've changed the story.

                        In the previous post you said that no one made one piece welded systems, which is not correct. Now you say that no one made the correct folds that you wanted, and that was the issue. Which was it?

                        You are right in that no one previous to Gardner has duplicated the correct folds, and if that was your problem with previous systems then that is fine. Just be sure that you say it was the folds, not the "one piece welded" factor that disappointed you with previously available systems.

                        The incorrectness of previous exhausts (other than NOS) has disappointed many of us. However, I'm happy to have had systems available that fit and functioned especially well. That won't stop me, though, from waiting to see if someone makes a correctly welded and bended system for my 72 and installing that in place of what is currently there.

                        Patrick
                        Patrick

                        When I had my 69 435hp car 1978 it had side exhaust. So I didn't care about the under car exhaust. Back in 78 or 79 I bought a mint used undercar exhaust that came off a 71 454 and it was a one welded system. It had the folds and all. I paid 50.00 and I butchered the tail pipes because I had side exhaust pipes. The pipes were hitting the rear valance panel so I cut the tail pipes off. I needed some pipes on the car to run the car back and forth from the shop till I could buy NOS Side exhaust pipes. I still remember the day I gave the 71 B/B exhaust system to a guy restoring a 68 vette. I wish I had kept those original exhaust system.

                        I was looking for under car exhaust in 82 or 83 when I got my 68 B/B and I ran into problems of not finding a one piece welded system. (no folds in the bends this time)I did say....I may have been looking at the wrong vendors for the one piece welded system. Maybe at that time there was a one piece system and I couldn't find it and I was discouraged from the vendors telling me No to this and No to that. I did talk to 2 major reproduction vendors and they told me they didn't or want to make a one piece system.

                        A few Years later... they are making it. When they made it, it was discussed that the sound wasn't the same. I called up the vendor and ask them if he could weld my NOS off road mufflers to his extended mid section pipes making my exhaust a one piece with NOS off road mufflers. If I recall the vendor could not do it.
                        As another couple of years go by the folds in the exhaust pipes were discussed So I contacted the 2 major Vendors when they were selling the one piece welded system but did not have the correct folds in the bends as discussed on the Camaro forum and the NCRS board. Again they say retooling etc etc cost too much.
                        In the last year or so exhaust systems were discussed about and Gardners Exhaust systems came up. I gave them a shout and they didn't have the tooling yet and I was to give him another call later.
                        After much discussion with Eric last couple of months I sent him my stuff to reproduce.
                        It was the 68 stuff that we talked about but after talking to him, he was waiting for another member to send him 2 inch pipes I went and sent him my NOS 2 inch exhaust system for him to reproduce. The mid section 2 inch round pipes were exactly the same as on a set of original 71 one piece welded system off a 71 or 72 that I have at home. I even sent him pictures of the correct folds near the welded seam of the mufflers to make sure he reproduced them the same way. So for the benefit of others I hope Eric can get them done and have them available. I did the best I can to help out fellow restorers.
                        I have been an NCRS member for 20 years. I always wanted to start up an NCRS Chapter in B.C. But no time or I did not have the expertise to start up a new chapter. I met Arne Chaddock last year in Salmon Arm and it was great. He need volunteers and I volunteered to be Co-judging Chair person. I just threw up my arm and said lets go for it. With the help Arne and the NWNCRS and meeting the requirements of NCRS, BCNCRS was born. We had our first judging school using my neighours house(Big place) and I didn't know what to expect but it turned out great. But all in all it has been a great experience and I am willing to put my time and effort to help other members restore their cars the best they can. I just want to clairify the exhaust issues is what I had with the vendors....Time and dates may be off a little. But I couldn't get the right stuff for my car but now there is a better chance for me to restore my car as closest to factory as possible.
                        Just my 2 cents worth.....if anything.
                        Grant

                        Comment

                        • Patrick H.
                          Beyond Control Poster
                          • December 1, 1989
                          • 11643

                          #27
                          Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                          Originally posted by Grant Wong (12133)
                          Patrick
                          Just my 2 cents worth.....if anything.
                          Grant
                          Grant,

                          No problem at all with it, and I'm glad you had the parts to loan to Gardner's and get it done! Hopefully many of us can benefit from it. Thanks for the narrative.

                          My previous posts were not meant to minimize your assistance with the Gardner exhaust. I just wanted to be sure that everyone knew the facts behind the other currently available system with correct mufflers.

                          Patrick
                          Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
                          71 "deer modified" coupe
                          72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
                          2008 coupe
                          Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

                          Comment

                          • James G.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • May 31, 1976
                            • 1556

                            #28
                            Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                            JUST FOR FUN,.....Has anyone used Allan Exhaust Systems ? For a long time they were the only action in town reproducing N-11 .

                            Also, has anyone repoduced the front pipes for 66 and 67 powerglide 427/390hp cars ? It is a very unique pipe and impossible to find item.
                            Over 80 Corvettes of fun ! Love Rochester Fuel Injection 57-65 cars. Love CORVETTE RACE CARS
                            Co-Founder REGISTRY OF CORVETTE RACE CARS.COM

                            Comment

                            • Grant W.
                              Very Frequent User
                              • December 1, 1987
                              • 407

                              #29
                              Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                              Originally posted by James Gessner (943)
                              JUST FOR FUN,.....Has anyone used Allan Exhaust Systems ? For a long time they were the only action in town reproducing N-11 .

                              Also, has anyone repoduced the front pipes for 66 and 67 powerglide 427/390hp cars ? It is a very unique pipe and impossible to find item.
                              Hi James
                              If you have a pic of what it looks like. I will look in my collection of pipes and see if it is there. I have some but with out the part numbers. I think you need the 3880401 and 3880402
                              Thanks, Grant

                              Comment

                              • David D.
                                Frequent User
                                • December 1, 1989
                                • 74

                                #30
                                Re: CC N11 Off Road Exhaust

                                JUST FOR FUN,.....Has anyone used Allan Exhaust Systems ? For a long time they were the only action in town reproducing N-11 .
                                I installed the 2 1/2" Allen Exhust "Off Road" fully welded system on my 1964 about 20 years ago. The first set that I received was as quiet as a Cadillac. I called the company and they said they probably sent me the standard mufflers instead of the Off Road. They sent me a second exhaust system, and it was indeed louder, but I suspect they are still not as loud as original style N-11. That set is still on my car today.

                                Comment

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