The beginning of the end?

[Dale C.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

I hate to agree with all the pessimism being posted, but most of the insight is right on. We are a people far too focused on greed, wringing all we can out of the systems in which we live, even to the self-destruct stage. We, as a country, have indulged and misused the principals of credit and leverage to excess and now must all suffer. Compounding this problem of indulgence, exploiting our future, we have mistakenly entrusted the biggest buffoons in society to create our laws of governance. I hate to say it but there was a flaw in our historic model of legislation. There was a lack of some form of competency testing for elected officials. Our build sheet had high ideals and great principals, for the most part, and it was drawn up by honorable men such as Thomas Jefferson. Unfortunately it has now morphed into a vulnerable form of institutional bureaucracy. Our government is now a model of graft and corruption, over-run with far too many William Jeffersons ($50K Louisiana icebox fame). I am a die hard conservative and in no way do I believe in the left leaning agenda of the Democratic party but for the sake of our country I do Hope (sticks in my throat) that this president can get us somewhat together again and moving in the right direction. It just seems as though we have an endless supply of idiots that gravitate toward politics, and I fear for the private sector when these incompetent politicians get into corporate boardrooms.
Dale

[Stuart F.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

Speaking of which; did you see old George W. Bush dodge those two big shoes thrown at him at a news conference in Iraq? Wow! Those were some great moves! He didn't flinch a bit!

Stu Fox

[Chuck S.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

most GM customers are not "prius" type car buyers so i don't think GM will have success trying to sell them. most of these prius type buyers are the tree hugger types and they will never buy a GM car because they are plainly anti GM. if GM can't make it selling trucks,suvs,camaros and corvettes i think they are toast and i still have 4 years left on my GM warranty of my 08 corvette. no one is selling cars these days and since GM has not made any money selling cars in the USA in the 6-8 years and their big profit maker GMAC is gone i do not give them much hope. JMHO

Successful corporations can anticipate where the future is taking the market, and Toyota did that with the Prius. You don't have to be a tree hugger to appreciate 60+ mpg when gasoline is at $4.00/gallon. If gasoline had continued at $4.00/gallon very much longer, millions were going to become "tree huggers".

Gasoline is back to around $1.55 here, but trust me, as soon as the economy begins to firm up, the speculators/ragheads will be back to the same game. Gasoline will be at $6-$8 a gallon soon, and we'll go through another cycle of Dodge Ram duelly pickups and Ford F350 King Ranch editions sitting in parking lots along the roadside with "For Sell" signs on them.

Congress should have taken my suggestion to peg the price of gasoline at or above $4.00/gallon when it was there, and collected the difference as additional taxes as the wholesale price declined. The Treasury would be rolling in dough, the fixed $4.00+ price would be maintaining a national motivation for energy independence, and the average driver would just keep buying less gasoline causing further reductions in foreign oil prices.

No, GM has to change NOW, or they will be toast. In fact, it may be too late already...current events and shortsighted planning have finally brought them to the brink of the abyss. I'm sorry, but in spite of our admiration for pickups, SUVs, Corvettes, and Camaros, the future market will be limited for those vehicle types.

In the future, a successful international corporation will have to provide the most economical, reliable platforms for the broadest segment of the world's population, which will increasingly become more of "tree hugger" ilk. If pickups, SUVs, Corvettes, and Camaros are the only vehicles GM can design/build (I know that it is not), the corporation will need to be substantially smaller than their present size to supply the future demand for those vehicle types.

[Clem Z.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

those prius type cars are great for people who never leave the city limits and only haul 2 people and no luggage. i just came back from a 2500 mile trip in a 2008 caddy STS with 4 people and luggage for a week and even it was too small for comfort and most GM car buyers are like me as this is what we do with our cars. we also drive with the traffic flow and that is at least 10 MPH over the 70 MPH speed limit. even the prius sales are down close to 50 % so the cost of gas has little to do with what is going on now. even at $4 a gallon people like me need our silverados to pull our ATVs and snowmobiles to the mountains and that is a 400 mile round trip for us. yes a lot of people don't like $4 a gallon gas but they keep smoking $6 a pack cigs and drinking bottled water while complaining about the price of fuel. if you think the govt needs more $$$$ just write them a extra check but i bet you take every deduction you are entitled to on your taxes. happy motoring! PS the $4 gasoline was caused by the speculators and gas will get to about $2.50 a gallon and that is where it should be adjusted for inflation. i notice the liberal pols want me to ride around in a prius but they use a big black GM suburbans for safety. when i see obama riding in a prius i MAY buy one.

[Chuck S.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

(1) I don't own a Prius and I don't sell them.

(2) All the people that want the extra gas mileage are not tree-huggers.

(3) Don't count on MAXIMUM you will EVER pay for gasoline to be $4.

(4) If you need a truck or SUV, and can afford the gasoline, drive one.

(5) I do own a small 4WD SUV that I put maybe a 1000 miles annually hauling building materials, yard debris, and general fooling around. It gets maybe 20-25 mpg. I can afford to drive it under those conditions. I bought it for going places where mud was likely to be a foot deep, and that was before every soccor mom in the country decided they needed to sit up high in a large safe vehicle that never saw the off-road.

(6) GM can not exist in the future as it does now building trucks, SUVs, and recreational toys. Joe Lucia told you why the Big 3 virtually developed the SUV market...cheap fuel and no CAFE restrictions. Cheap fuel has all but disappeared, and SUVs are very likely a dying breed.

GM would not be the first car company to disappear because they didn't anticipate the changing market (Studebaker, Packard, American Motors, etc.)...but they would be the largest with the greatest past success to fail.

[Timothy B.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

Stu,

To you comment, we gave those people the right to throw shoes at our President. If that was Saddam they would have cut that reporter up and fed him to the lions and the crowds would have cheered.

In all this enocomic mess and now with oil less expensive this country better take the opportunity to develop it's natural gas resources and DRILL BABY DRILL because we have spilled enough blood and $$$ over there to keep the peace.

I still don't know why clean burn coal technoligy is something our goverment does not take a closer look at.

[Wayne W.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

Successful corporations can anticipate where the future is taking the market, and Toyota did that with the Prius. You don't have to be a tree hugger to appreciate 60+ mpg when gasoline is at $4.00/gallon. If gasoline had continued at $4.00/gallon very much longer, millions were going to become "tree huggers".

Gasoline is back to around $1.55 here, but trust me, as soon as the economy begins to firm up, the speculators/ragheads will be back to the same game. Gasoline will be at $6-$8 a gallon soon, and we'll go through another cycle of Dodge Ram duelly pickups and Ford F350 King Ranch editions sitting in parking lots along the roadside with "For Sell" signs on them.

Congress should have taken my suggestion to peg the price of gasoline at or above $4.00/gallon when it was there, and collected the difference as additional taxes as the wholesale price declined. The Treasury would be rolling in dough, the fixed $4.00+ price would be maintaining a national motivation for energy independence, and the average driver would just keep buying less gasoline causing further reductions in foreign oil prices.

No, GM has to change NOW, or they will be toast. In fact, it may be too late already...current events and shortsighted planning have finally brought them to the brink of the abyss. I'm sorry, but in spite of our admiration for pickups, SUVs, Corvettes, and Camaros, the future market will be limited for those vehicle types.

In the future, a successful international corporation will have to provide the most economical, reliable platforms for the broadest segment of the world's population, which will increasingly become more of "tree hugger" ilk. If pickups, SUVs, Corvettes, and Camaros are the only vehicles GM can design/build (I know that it is not), the corporation will need to be substantially smaller than their present size to supply the future demand for those vehicle types.

ALL That I can say about this statement is WOW. It deserves no other comment.

[Clem Z.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

(1) I don't own a Prius and I don't sell them.

(2) All the people that want the extra gas mileage are not tree-huggers.

(3) Don't count on MAXIMUM you will EVER pay for gasoline to be $4.

(4) If you need a truck or SUV, and can afford the gasoline, drive one.

(5) I do own a small 4WD SUV that I put maybe a 1000 miles annually hauling building materials, yard debris, and general fooling around. It gets maybe 20-25 mpg. I can afford to drive it under those conditions. I bought it for going places where mud was likely to be a foot deep, and that was before every soccor mom in the country decided they needed to sit up high in a large safe vehicle that never saw the off-road.

(6) GM can not exist in the future as it does now building trucks, SUVs, and recreational toys. Joe Lucia told you why the Big 3 virtually developed the SUV market...cheap fuel and no CAFE restrictions. Cheap fuel has all but disappeared, and SUVs are very likely a dying breed.

GM would not be the first car company to disappear because they didn't anticipate the changing market (Studebaker, Packard, American Motors, etc.)...but they would be the largest with the greatest past success to fail.

i understand that toyota looses money at $25K on every prius they sell so if you want a prius type car you have to be willing to spend $40K/$50K or better just like the buyers of the SUVs did so both GM and toyota can turn a profit. GM has already sent the signal that the VOLT will cost $40K and everybody is up in arms over the price. good fuel mileage does not mean inexpensive cars and the american public is not ready to accept that yet

[George C.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

I'm so sick of of the union bashers. GM management has made so many bad decisions.....starting with the KING Roger Smith. Hell you couldn"t ruin a company any better if you tried. I never made the kind of money you "experts" say the UAW workers make. Always point to the worker.....did they design and approve of the cars GM made ? They go to work and build them, good or bad, they work with what they were told. Did they buy the cheap parts that GM buys to make the cars fall apart ? Did the union tell the goverment to let all these foreign companies build and dump there cars here....tax free. You can't buy an American car in Japan unless you pay a hugh tariff. The Japenese people love American cars....the world Loves American cars. Just here in our country the people seem to be bent on hating them. Keep buying those Toyotas, Honda, etc. That's the Big problem. You seem to Think that your 1 Toyota doesn't matter.....your right, its the 750,000 other Americans fault. Just my rant.
This video is really the end if it is true. Watch it. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...00958565&hl=es

[David D.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

I'm so sick of of the union bashers. GM management has made so many bad decisions.....starting with the KING Roger Smith. Hell you couldn"t ruin a company any better if you tried. I never made the kind of money you "experts" say the UAW workers make. Always point to the worker.....did they design and approve of the cars GM made ? They go to work and build them, good or bad, they work with what they were told. Did they buy the cheap parts that GM buys to make the cars fall apart ? Did the union tell the goverment to let all these foreign companies build and dump there cars here....tax free. You can't buy an American car in Japan unless you pay a hugh tariff. The Japenese people love American cars....the world Loves American cars. Just here in our country the people seem to be bent on hating them. Keep buying those Toyotas, Honda, etc. That's the Big problem. You seem to Think that your 1 Toyota doesn't matter.....your right, its the 750,000 other Americans fault. Just my rant.
This video is really the end if it is true. Watch it. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...00958565&hl=es

George,
I agree with some of your statements, but also disagree with a few as well, a bit about the UAW. That said, the main reason for me writing is to say your video is SPOT on with the coming events.....As bad as it sounds folks should take serious note, do their own DD, and make necessary preparations.
It sure is going to get a lot worse before it gets even a little better.
Check out this video...epecially Part 2,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-a_r4qx4WE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGxC5v220HE&feature=related

David

[Clem Z.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

I'm so sick of of the union bashers. GM management has made so many bad decisions.....starting with the KING Roger Smith. Hell you couldn"t ruin a company any better if you tried. I never made the kind of money you "experts" say the UAW workers make. Always point to the worker.....did they design and approve of the cars GM made ? They go to work and build them, good or bad, they work with what they were told. Did they buy the cheap parts that GM buys to make the cars fall apart ? Did the union tell the goverment to let all these foreign companies build and dump there cars here....tax free. You can't buy an American car in Japan unless you pay a hugh tariff. The Japenese people love American cars....the world Loves American cars. Just here in our country the people seem to be bent on hating them. Keep buying those Toyotas, Honda, etc. That's the Big problem. You seem to Think that your 1 Toyota doesn't matter.....your right, its the 750,000 other Americans fault. Just my rant.
This video is really the end if it is true. Watch it. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...00958565&hl=es

i think a lot of the problem is that GM buyers who make less than $50K and little benefits a year hear about what these UAW workers pull down in wages and benefits and they are saying i am not going to support this anymore. most workers when they get laid off go on unemployment for 26 weeks but the UAW worker goes into a job bank at 80%+ of his/her wages for the remaining length of the contract which could be years. yes GM management has made a lot of mistakes and they are correcting them now but the union will not give in to any type of give back on the benefits. a lot of american workers have given up their benefits to keep their job and unless the UAW workers do this GM is toast. the UAW talks about the new contract with lower wages for new hires BUT with the shrinking in size GM must do there will be no new workers and the ones that do leave will still get all the big benefits that is killing GM.

[Clem Z.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

I'm so sick of of the union bashers. GM management has made so many bad decisions.....starting with the KING Roger Smith. Hell you couldn"t ruin a company any better if you tried. I never made the kind of money you "experts" say the UAW workers make. Always point to the worker.....did they design and approve of the cars GM made ? They go to work and build them, good or bad, they work with what they were told. Did they buy the cheap parts that GM buys to make the cars fall apart ? Did the union tell the goverment to let all these foreign companies build and dump there cars here....tax free. You can't buy an American car in Japan unless you pay a hugh tariff. The Japenese people love American cars....the world Loves American cars. Just here in our country the people seem to be bent on hating them. Keep buying those Toyotas, Honda, etc. That's the Big problem. You seem to Think that your 1 Toyota doesn't matter.....your right, its the 750,000 other Americans fault. Just my rant.
This video is really the end if it is true. Watch it. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...00958565&hl=es

if this happens the whole world will collapse because the USA is the biggest buyer of products from around the world and if it is broke there is no place else to sell world wide products. oil will be $1.00 a barrel because there will be no one with money to buy it. look what has happened already the americans have stopped buying and the whole world is in a recession. he talks about gold,it was $850 a oz in 1980 and if you allow for inflation it would need to be $2000 a oz right now to be equal to that $850

[Donald B.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

Union labor rates and work rules are a big problem but only one of the problems.

The plants are outdated - changing over to other models takes weeks/months - the newest plants (foreign makes) can make the change in hours.

Then there is the bloated management.

Finally there is the generally bland designs. Who wants any of these?

[Terry M.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

Look up "Amero" on Snopes.com.

Of course there are those who will say Snopes.com is run by the CIA -- so we go round and round

[Clem Z.]

Re: The beginning of the end?

Look up "Amero" on Snopes.com.

Of course there are those who will say Snopes.com is run by the CIA -- so we go round and round

i thought that guy was as full of s--t as a Christmas goose and no wonder they kicked him off of the air.