Door jamb paint

[Patrick H.]

Re: Door jamb paint

I think that most guys agree that there are various degrees of gloss in the door jams and other ares. But there are a lot of judges that want to see these ares dull. So, right or wrong, if you want to play the game and get all the points you can then you had best dull the paint in the area's that the judges like to see dull paint.
Bill

I'd suggest that what we're really looking for is varying degrees of orange peel/texture just as much as gloss, if not more so. If you use the exact same paint applied to all areas of the car at the same time (which is what occurred), it's the texture that affects your level of perceived gloss more than anything else.

Yes?

[William L.]

Re: Door jamb paint

Michael; Did they put a boot or mask on the switch? Why would options make a difference?
Bill

[Michael H.]

Re: Door jamb paint

I'd suggest that what we're really looking for is varying degrees of orange peel/texture just as much as gloss, if not more so. If you use the exact same paint applied to all areas of the car at the same time (which is what occurred), it's the texture that affects your level of perceived gloss more than anything else.

Yes?

Patrick,

I think that's part of it. Some body areas/surfaces of normal paint coverage can be rough, yet the paint on it is glossy. Other areas may be smooth but have "dry spray" which would result in a very low gloss level.

I think you and William, and I think Mike Murray, described it best. There is no "one level of gloss/flat for the paint in a door jamb".

The jambs in my 66 display the entire range of flat/gloss, depending where you look. Some areas look just as glossy as the side fenders. Other areas are dull.

[Michael H.]

Re: Door jamb paint

Michael; Did they put a boot or mask on the switch? Why would options make a difference?
Bill

Nope. The switch was not masked/covered.

OK, the option part may have been confusing but if I explain why, it would give it away.

Has anyone seen this in any C2 JG? Just wondered if all of the manuals call for "no overspray" on the switch.

[William L.]

Re: Door jamb paint

I'd suggest that what we're really looking for is varying degrees of orange peel/texture just as much as gloss, if not more so. If you use the exact same paint applied to all areas of the car at the same time (which is what occurred), it's the texture that affects your level of perceived gloss more than anything else.

Yes?

Pat
Don't get me wrong I am NOT knocking judges. I am a judge and enjoy judging very much.This is why I like this board so much I just keep Learning. But I did have a judge tell me that my door jams and hood rain gutter are to glossy and suggested that I spray some "semi-gloss paint" in those areas. I asked him if he really thought they did that on the assembly line. He just turned and walked away.
I am not mad at the judge, it was just his opinion and a very minor deduct.

Bill

[Donald T.]

Re: Door jamb paint

Nope. The switch was not masked/covered.

OK, the option part may have been confusing but if I explain why, it would give it away.

Has anyone seen this in any C2 JG? Just wondered if all of the manuals call for "no overspray" on the switch.

I can tell you that the current 65 JG calls for no paint on the switch. Can't speak to other years.

[William L.]

Re: Door jamb paint

The 67 JM states"Does not have paint overspray"

[Michael H.]

Re: Door jamb paint

The 67 JM states"Does not have paint overspray"

Ok, save the pic I posted and later this evening, I'll explain why it's perfectly normal, and correct, to likely have some overspray on the switch on all 63's, most 64's and at least 60% of the 65-67's.

I know most are going to disagree because the body didn't have any dome light switches in it when it was painted.

I have a feeling your 67 isn't supposed to have any overspray on the switch and didn't have any when new. Can't tell for sure from the avatar though.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Door jamb paint

Ok, save the pic I posted and later this evening, I'll explain why it's perfectly normal, and correct, to likely have some overspray on the switch on all 63's, most 64's and at least 60% of the 65-67's.

I know most are going to disagree because the body didn't have any dome light switches in it when it was painted.

I have a feeling your 67 isn't supposed to have any overspray on the switch and didn't have any when new. Can't tell for sure from the avatar though.

I know why!

But I'll let you go ahead and tell the answer.

Patrick

[Michael H.]

Re: Door jamb paint

I know why!

But I'll let you go ahead and tell the answer.

Patrick

Thanks Patrick. Yes, I went all through this here on this board a few years ago. Looks like it didn't have any effect on the JG's though.

[Kirk M.]

Re: Door jamb paint

Hey, all of this discussion is great, but why won't the NCRS change the judging guide to come in line with "reality". Losing all your paint points simply because some regions of your car aren't artificially dulled seems rather silly to me. Ok, I agree since my car isn't original lacquer paint that I should NOT receive all the points, but dang it is the CORRECT color on the VIN tag and was done in a manner similar to the original paint job. Seems like I should get some credit for that. When we start doing things to our cars that are artificial just to create what is perceived as original or correct haven't we gone too far????? I don't think an organization that is based on restoration should support that kind of behavior.

Kirk

[Mike M.]

Re: Door jamb paint

Kirk, I believe (and hope) you meant "Trim Tag".
If you have in fact replicated the Typical Factory color, material and application, you should not receive originality deductions.
HaND

[Mike M.]

Re: Door jamb paint

OK Michael, I'll throw a little more gas on the fire.
I'm surprised John Hinckley hasn't jumped in. But, since he is not here to defend himself, I'll kick it off.
I asked John this specific question about the possibility of overspray on the interior light door switch and the process during his tenure at the plant in '67.
If I am able to paraphrase his response accurately, the switch was installed on the trim line, well after the body was painted.
Therefore, when the Interior and Exterior colors match, there should be no overspray.
If the Interior and Exterior differed in color, the dash tab was masked and painted body color. With a less than perfect masking job, then the possibility exists that there could be body color on the switch.
In some examples, I'm sure you have also noticed the body color overspray on the under edge of the eyebrows due to a ragged masking line as well.
I hope John will chime if any additional clarification is needed.
HaND

[Michael H.]

Re: Door jamb paint

OK Michael, I'll throw a little more gas on the fire.
I'm surprised John Hinckley hasn't jumped in. But, since he is not here to defend himself, I'll kick it off.
I asked John this specific question about the possibility of overspray on the interior light door switch and the process during his tenure at the plant in '67.
If I am able to paraphrase his response accurately, the switch was installed on the trim line, well after the body was painted.
Therefore, when the Interior and Exterior colors match, there should be no overspray.
If the Interior and Exterior differed in color, the dash tab was masked and painted body color. With a less than perfect masking job, then the possibility exists that there could be body color on the switch.
In some examples, I'm sure you have also noticed the body color overspray on the under edge of the eyebrows due to a ragged masking line as well.
I hope John will chime if any additional clarification is needed.
HaND

Yup, that's pretty close Mike. But some clarification is needed. I first brought this up here about four years ago when someone asked about body color overspray on the forward edge of a dash pad. I described the paint process at that time and explained the differences between matching/non matching interior/exterior colors.

Here's how it worked and what the differece was between 63-64 and 65-67. This seems to be the most confusing part for most.

The bodies were painted without the dash panel in place. That's why there's body color behind the dash tabs. After the body was completely painted, the entire dash panel with pads was installed.
The outer tabs that were riveted to the door jamb were still unpainted at this point.
A mask was placed against the outer side of the dash pad and the tab was sprayed body color. The mask didn't always fit well and that's where the overspray on the edge of the dash pad came from. Also, the hinge pillar was not masked, at all, which explains the overspray on the dome light switch and the dry overspray around the dash tab.

Now, for the difference between 63-64 and 65-67.

For 63, ALL the dash tabs were painted gloss body color. All of them, no matter what the interior/exterior colors were. The same is true for all early 64's to some point in mid production. It didn't matter what the interior/exterior color combination was. They were all painted gloss body color, including the rivets that held it in place.
I know there is some debate about this but not as far as I'm concerned.
Red car, black interior, gloss red dash tabs and rivets.
Red car, red interior, gloss red dash tabs and rivets.

For late 64 through 67, things changed.

For 64L-67 cars with non matching body and interior colors, the process was the same as that of 63-E64. All tabs and rivets in non matching int/ext color cars were painted gloss body color.
Red car, black interior, gloss red dash tabs and rivets.

For 65-67 cars with matching body and interior/dash colors, the dash tabs would already have been painted semi gloss interior color before it was installed in the car. It was decided that for cars with matching int/ext colors, the tabs would be left semi gloss interior color and not painted after it's installation. That left the rivets in their unpainted color of black.
Red car, red interior, semi gloss red dash tabs and black rivets.

So, a black 67 coupe with black interior would have no overspray on the dash pad or dome light switch and the tabs should be semi gloss black.

I think all of the 63-67 JG state the same on the "no over spray" on the switch. This should be corrected.

Last year, John Hinckley joined one of these discussions that I had going and said that the point on the assembly line where the tabs were painted was, I believe, the final trim line.

If your unrestored 63 or 64 has something other than gloss body color dash tabs and rivets, we'd like to hear about it.

[Nick C.]

Re: Door jamb paint