need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

[Ian G.]

Hi, I am buying 550 heads from a engine rebuilder as a package deal. One price for the heads rebuilt. I need advice on what to have him do. I don't intend to race the car, or want to change its character, but just rebuild it with modern components for strength and original performance from my original 59 fuelie.

This is what he is suggesting:

Magna Fluxed OK already
3 angle valve job
Bronze guides
new Springs
Stainless Exhaust Valves and intakes
resurfaced/trued
new rocker studs

I've read through a lot of posts, but having trouble digesting it...
I plan to run 100 or 110 octane leaded fuel through it (There is a local station that sells it ) so I already turned down hardened seats.

[Joe L.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Hi, I am buying 550 heads from a engine rebuilder as a package deal. One price for the heads rebuilt. I need advice on what to have him do. I don't intend to race the car, or want to change its character, but just rebuild it with modern components for strength and original performance from my original 59 fuelie.

This is what he is suggesting:

Magna Fluxed OK already
3 angle valve job
Bronze guides
new Springs
Stainless Exhaust Valves and intakes
resurfaced/trued
new rocker studs

I've read through a lot of posts, but having trouble digesting it...
I plan to run 100 or 110 octane leaded fuel through it (There is a local station that sells it ) so I already turned down hardened seats.

Ian-----


I'd say the list of service operations and parts sounds fine. Just a few comments:

1) Unless he's talking about replacing the rocker studs with screw-in type OR if there are known problems with existing studs, I would NOT recommend replacing the pressed-in studs;

2) You don't need exhaust valve inserts whether, or not, you use leaded fuel. Personally, I would not recommend the use of leaded fuel;

3) Stainless valves are not really necessary. However, stainless steel valves are widely used today and the cost for good quality valves is not that much more than "old-fashioned" valves. I would go ahead and use them.

[Ian G.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Thanks for your advice; I'm not really a car guy growing up. I was always more into computers :P

1) Yeah he's doing the screw-in studs...
2) Are the exhaust inserts what were referred to as the exhaust intakes?
I figured on using those since it wasn't much more and I want it to be top notch, but I could have him drop them. I plan to use leaded fuel because I've heard of boiling probelms in the fuelie spider lines on warm startup using unleaded fuel (even with lead additives)
3) again it wasn't much more and I want it to be top notch and last a good long time.

Do any of these things seem risky? Adding the stainless stuff was about $65 dollars on top of a $1500 price tag for the complete package, so I wasn't too concerned about the price.

[Jim L.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

1) Yeah he's doing the screw-in studs...

Insist on screw in studs made by ARP. Hands down, these are the the best you can buy.

I plan to use leaded fuel because I've heard of boiling probelms in the fuelie spider lines on warm startup using unleaded fuel (even with lead additives)

Leaded fuel won't prevent fuel percolation in the spider lines.

The presence of lead in fuel that is percolation-resistant is merely a byproduct of the type of fuel that works well in fuelies...... i.e. racing gasoline.

The fuel percolation problem will bite you under the following conditions:

1. You find yourself in stop and go traffic on a really hot day
2. You refire the engine after a protracted heat soak on a hot day.

As long as you are moving, as long as the engine is under load, as long as the underhood ambient temperature is cool, you won't have a problem.

And even if you do have a problem with fuel percolation, as long as you keep in mind that the FI unit isn't going to leave you stranded, you can get by. What you have to do is to train yourself to learn what the fuelie unit is telling you and to give it what it needs. Do that, and you can run pump gas all day long with no worries. I do.

Jim

[Ian G.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

thanks for the pointers.

[John D.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Ian, Make sure you use the original style one piece base gasket. Get the repro that's 1/8" thick. Not the cheater 1/16" one. Make sure your nozzle lines aren't touching the plenum either.
I use 100LL aviation in my 63 LWC and have zero perculation problems.

[Joe L.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Insist on screw in studs made by ARP. Hands down, these are the the best you can buy.

Leaded fuel won't prevent fuel percolation in the spider lines.

The presence of lead in fuel that is percolation-resistant is merely a byproduct of the type of fuel that works well in fuelies...... i.e. racing gasoline.

The fuel percolation problem will bite you under the following conditions:

1. You find yourself in stop and go traffic on a really hot day
2. You refire the engine after a protracted heat soak on a hot day.

As long as you are moving, as long as the engine is under load, as long as the underhood ambient temperature is cool, you won't have a problem.

And even if you do have a problem with fuel percolation, as long as you keep in mind that the FI unit isn't going to leave you stranded, you can get by. What you have to do is to train yourself to learn what the fuelie unit is telling you and to give it what it needs. Do that, and you can run pump gas all day long with no worries. I do.

Jim

Jim-----


I agree on both the ARP stud and fuel percolation comments.

I use ARP studs EXCLUSIVELY. However, there is one, slight problem with them FOR SOME. All ARP studs are the flanged type which require that the stud bosses be milled down. This, of course, creates a non-original configuration and requires modifications to cylinder heads which are sometimes quite valuable. Of course, for most of these engines there's no way for anyone to know what lies beneath the valve covers. Still, there are folks to whom restoration takes on the qualities of a religion and they want their cars to be original in all respects, seen or unseen. So, modifying and installing flanged-type studs may be considered a "mortal" sin by these folks.

For those individuals so-afflicted but requiring new rocker studs, the rocker studs can be replaced with the non-flanged style screw-in. These simply require drilling and tapping of the existing rocker stud bosses. Once installed, it's difficult to discern the difference between a pressed-in stud and the screw-in (although it can be discerned). There are no really high quality studs of this type on the market, but these are available from Pioneer and other engine parts sources and the quality is adequate for street applications. Using this type screw-in stud for those treating restoration as a religion may be considered only a "venial" sin.

Those wanting 100% originality and pressed-in studs but requiring new studs always have available the oversize studs from GM. Of course, the oversize studs are not 100% original, either, but they're closer than anything else. Assuming one is able to install them without cracking the stud boss or the head, itself, and assuming that they don't pull out later, one can maintain virtually complete original configuration. Not for me, though.

[Joe L.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Ian, Make sure you use the original style one piece base gasket. Get the repro that's 1/8" thick. Not the cheater 1/16" one. Make sure your nozzle lines aren't touching the plenum either.
I use 100LL aviation in my 63 LWC and have zero perculation problems.

John-----


....yes, but do you know that you would have fuel percolation problems if you used unleaded pump gas?

[Duke W.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Assuming you are going to use an OE cam and the studs have no history of pulling, I would leave them alone.

If the head mating surface is flat, I would not surface it. My philosophy is to measure, measure, measure, and only machine when absolutely necessary

I recommend OE replacement valves and cast iron guide inserts. That way you can use the standard OE sealing system. "Bronze guides" can mean inserts or the "Bronzewall" spiral wound wire type. One needs to know which in order to select a proper stem treatment and seal technology.

SS exhaust valves are overkill, but most OE replacement exhaust valves are at least 21-2N because the OE exhaust valve materials were upgraded over the years, and the current replacements for all years represent the best valves used in the emission control era, which placed a lot more thermal stress on the valves. A SS inlet valve is way overkill and a waste of money.

A "three-angle" valve job is a total waste of money unless you go through the entire head prep to improve the flow coefficients - pocket porting, port matching, chamber relieving, which will improve top end power without sacrificing low end torque, assuming you use the original design cam. If you prep the heads as above a 1.84" inlet valve is a very good idea.

I recently researched this and came up with the following Sealed Power (283) OE replacement valves that can be purchased at NAPA although there are still some descrepencies in material and stem plating depending on the source.

1.84": V-2143 - Sil 1 w/ chrome plated stem
1.72": V-1927 - Sil 1 w/ chrome plated stem
1.50": V-1199 - 21-4N (no stem plate)
1.50": V-1904 - 21-4N w/ chrome plated stem

In a recent thread about a week ago I reviewed valve materials.

Duke

[Ian G.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Hi Duke,

I'm buying the heads as the heads on my block are incorrect, so I don't know if they have a history of pulling

I'll see about having the rebuilder drop the SS inlet valve. Thanks for the info!

Hey John, I got my gasket from Paragon and it looks to be 1/8". Also, my fuel unit was purchased from Joe Marquez by the original owner and he had you do the rebuild, so hopefully all should be well there :P

[Jim L.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

I use ARP studs EXCLUSIVELY. However, there is one, slight problem with them FOR SOME. All ARP studs are the flanged type which require that the stud bosses be milled down. This, of course, creates a non-original configuration and requires modifications to cylinder heads which are sometimes quite valuable. Of course, for most of these engines there's no way for anyone to know what lies beneath the valve covers. Still, there are folks to whom restoration takes on the qualities of a religion and they want their cars to be original in all respects, seen or unseen. So, modifying and installing flanged-type studs may be considered a "mortal" sin by these folks.

Joe, I understand your point perfectly and, honestly, the religious aspects of modifying original parts hadn't occurred to me when I suggested the ARP studs. I'm an engineer and if I believe I've found a better and invisible way to build an engine, I automatically opt for it. However, I am sensitive to the possibility that not everyone feels the same way.

Regards,

Jim

[Ian G.]

How can you tell if the block is flat enough for shim gaskets?

I'm wondering if someone can point me in the right direction on how to check the block to see if it is flat enough to accept shim style .015 thick gaskets as opposed to .041 thick Felpro composition gaskets. I've heard the part FelPro 1003 on the board and plan to use that one if the block is not flat enough, unless anyone has a better idea I've also read in a couple places that it isn't likely that it won't be flat enough, but is there a relatively easy way to tell without buying an expensive tool for this single use?

Thanks very much for any help or ideas!

~ian

[Joe L.]

Re: How can you tell if the block is flat enough for shim gaskets?

I'm wondering if someone can point me in the right direction on how to check the block to see if it is flat enough to accept shim style .015 thick gaskets as opposed to .041 thick Felpro composition gaskets. I've heard the part FelPro 1003 on the board and plan to use that one if the block is not flat enough, unless anyone has a better idea I've also read in a couple places that it isn't likely that it won't be flat enough, but is there a relatively easy way to tell without buying an expensive tool for this single use?

Thanks very much for any help or ideas!

~ian

Ian-----


Basically, what you need is a precision straight edge and a feeler gauge. A precision straight edge is not the same thing as a steel ruler, piece of bar stock, etc.

[Ian G.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

thanks Joe. I have a feeler gauge... and I see a precision Straight edge would set me back about $80 or so. Maybe I can rent a straight edge for a day from a tool shop.

So basically, I lay that across the head and across the block and see what the thickest feeler gauge blade is I can stick under any gaps between the straight edge and the mating surface?
If thats what I need to do, what tolerance am I looking for to use a shim gasket?

thanks!

[Mark P.]

Re: need advice to rebuild 550 heads for '59 FI

Ian - I think your heads are getting surfaced so they should be flat.

Mark