C2 keys in Judging

[Dick G.]

I had my car judged this past weekend and received a top flite. All the judges were polite, complimentary, and excellent to work with. One of deducts I received was for my keys. The judges thought my keys should have the Briggs and Stratton number stamped into them, which is listed in the JG. I emailed my key man and he stated that number in the JG is misleading and should be explained, not to be present on the keys. Again, that is only the Briggs and Stratton part number. Anyone else have this issue arise?
Thanks Dick Gutman

[Joseph T.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

Hi Dick,
I know their are others on this forum that possess way more expertise on C2 keys than myself, specifically Peter Lindahl is extremely knowledgable. I believe the numbers the judges are refering to are the key code number which will also be stamped on each lock cylinder ( Glove box, doors, ignition and Spare tire lock) Examples are 8V23, 5X34, 7X23 and these numbers will also be stamped into the knockout area of your A and B Briggs and Stratton keys to match these lock codes. I am sure others will elaborate more on the subject. Good Luck.

[Jack H.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

I have to believe that the judges were advising you that factory original keys had the CODE SEQUENCE of the specific lock they were cut to fit embossed on the key's original PUNCH OUTS. That's a well known fact...

[Rick A.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

but, does everyone still have the knockouts????? is that a requirement in the TIM&JG?????? heck, I don't have the knockouts for the keys to my 2003 truck anymore - lost them somewhere!

[William L.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

I would think they are talking about the key code knock outs. The 67 Jm states "The ignition key is a hexagon-head Briggs & Stratton key containing an "A" stamped keyway and key code knock-out slug stamped with 1/8 inch characters.
On your judging sheets this fall in sec 8 Ignition switch. It's worth 3 points for Originality and 3 points for condition.
If I were judging I would probably not deduct any points and just make a comment "no knock outs" At worst I would think you may lose 1 point for Originality.
Lets see what better judges than I have to say!

[Gary B.]

No knockouts? One can buy new code-stamped keys

but, does everyone still have the knockouts????? is that a requirement in the TIM&JG?????? heck, I don't have the knockouts for the keys to my 2003 truck anymore - lost them somewhere!

After 40-some years and many cars with multiple owners, I'm sure there are lots of owners who no longer are in possession of the knockouts. Or don't know where they stored them decades ago. Nonetheless, the keys came either with the knockouts in place or already knocked-out by the dealer when the car was new, so, yes, the keys with knockouts or all 4 separated must be present during judging or there should be a deduct or a notation on the judging sheets at a minimum.

Anyone lacking knockouts can pay to get new keys (for C1, C2 or C3 cars) made with the correct code stamped knockouts either from our fellow DB poster, Pete Lindahl in New Mexico, or from Pat Kraus in Maryland. Both do excellent work and have very fair prices.

Gary

[Dick G.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

Look at a 65 JG.The Judges were specifically pointing to the key numbers in the 65 JG. They thought the numbers were to be present on the keys somewhere. The 65 JG is misleading. Why list the Briggs and Stratton part number for the keys if it is not suppose to be present on the keys? They were not talking about the knockouts. They were talking about the Briggs and Stratton number shown in the 65 JG.Thanks
DG

[William L.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

Look at a 65 JG.The Judges were specifically pointing to the key numbers in the 65 JG. They thought the numbers were to be present on the keys somewhere. The 65 JG is misleading. Why list the Briggs and Stratton part number for the keys if it is not suppose to be present on the keys? They were not talking about the knockouts. They were talking about the Briggs and Stratton number shown in the 65 JG.Thanks
DG

Dick: Hopefully a 65/66 master judge can answer your Question?

[Gary J.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

Here is what it is stated in the '66 Judging manual.

The ignition key is an octagon Briggs and Strattion number 32318 blank with a four didgit code number (if knock-out is still present).

The glove box lock is an oval Briggs and Strattion keywith the number 32319.

It says nothing about the oval key knock out but it does apply.

[Jack H.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

Note, that descriptive text does NOT state the Briggs PN for the key is somehow stamped on the key itself!

Since NCRS judges cars in the state they were delivered to the original owner, replete with then current dealer prep, the factory coded knockouts may either be in the keys or removed, but still present.

Dealers often 'threw in' decorative key fobs with new cars and most have rings that are too thick/fat to go through the narrow holes of the original punch outs.

Also, it was considered a prudent anti-theft move to remove the punch outs because anyone who got hold of the code sequence could have replacement keys cut from the original code(s)...

[Wayne M.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

Look at a 65 JG.The Judges were specifically pointing to the key numbers in the 65 JG. They thought the numbers were to be present on the keys somewhere. The 65 JG is misleading. Why list the Briggs and Stratton part number for the keys if it is not suppose to be present on the keys? They were not talking about the knockouts. They were talking about the Briggs and Stratton number shown in the 65 JG.Thanks
DG

Agree 100%. I've re-read the '65 TIM&JG and an impartial observer could not help but conclude that those Briggs & Stratton part #'s should appear on the keys. Don't know if other C1 & C2 judging guides mention this.

Here's 2 keys from (if memory serves) a '66 coupe I owned for only a few months, back in 1969.

Check an excellent RESTORER article by Gary Beaupre and Peter Lindahl [Vol 32 #3 -- winter 2006]. It doesn't mention those B&S part #'s either, but does give the GM part #s of the blanks. My P&A30's parts books do not reference the B&S #'s either.

[Mark K.]

Matching Number Keys

I find it interesting that the key knock-outs match the numbers in the "Corvette Order" documents. See the attached:

[Stuart F.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

You fellows are lucky to have the two key system. My 63 just has the one and, as best I can recall, I have always been able to pull my ignition key out to lock/unlock my glove box. The last 20 or 30 years I have been wondering whether that was normal, or are my keys just worn that much?

Stu Fox

[Jack H.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

Ignition switch changed design over time and key removal is matter of what postion the ignition switch is in + what year the car is. The matter is covered in the Performance Verification Manual(s) where that specific 'feature' is judged....

[John D.]

Re: C2 keys in Judging

My 63 has one original key with the knockout. So a while back our own key guy Peter Lindahl went to great pains to make me a pair of 100% correct keys for the LWC. I was very impressed and highly suggest you just hand your key problem over to Peter. I saw him briefly at Corvette Carlisle so I imagine he is on his way home and not on line yet.
Ask Peter about the correct key ring also. I don't believe this is judged but maybe it should be. John D.