Krylon 1613 discontinued

[Henry S.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

There's something here I can't figure out. Apparently, it's been confirmed that the Krylon 1613 remains available in the Krylon-Industrial paint line. I prefer the industrial paint line because the paint is more durable than the "mass-marketed" type. So, why is everyone going out and scooping up all of the "mass-marketed" 1613 they can find?

Another problem: if you keep spray can paint around for a long time, it often loses its propellant charge. I've got more useless cans of spray paint around here than you could imagine.

Come on Joe!! Don't you realize it's the "hunt" more than the product that gets the juices flowing. Kind of like the craziness of finding that "original bolthead marking" on a bolt for some "ole jalopy" we're restoring. HAHAHA

I know as you mentioned the 1613 is still available in the industrial line but some (like me) don't live close to a town with industrial stores to stop and pick it up as I need it (you know one of the "comforts" of living in the country). From what I've learned from the Krylon website the 1613 they sell on the industrial side is EXACTLY the same as they sold at Ace, Truevalue, Wallyworld and so on. The ONLY difference will be you have to buy it by the six pack. If they do change it so it is more durable as you mentioned I believe they would have to change the number like they did with the replacement in the stores (51613). Just my opinion. So for those that are looking for one or two cans..........the hunt goes on.

Shooter

[Joe L.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Come on Joe!! Don't you realize it's the "hunt" more than the product that gets the juices flowing. Kind of like the craziness of finding that "original bolthead marking" on a bolt for some "ole jalopy" we're restoring. HAHAHA

I know as you mentioned the 1613 is still available in the industrial line but some (like me) don't live close to a town with industrial stores to stop and pick it up as I need it (you know one of the "comforts" of living in the country). From what I've learned from the Krylon website the 1613 they sell on the industrial side is EXACTLY the same as they sold at Ace, Truevalue, Wallyworld and so on. The ONLY difference will be you have to buy it by the six pack. If they do change it so it is more durable as you mentioned I believe they would have to change the number like they did with the replacement in the stores (51613). Just my opinion. So for those that are looking for one or two cans..........the hunt goes on.

Shooter

Shooter----


I don't think so. I think that the designation "1613" refers to a "color/gloss level" and not to a specific formulation. In any event, the specific formulation of the mass-marketed 1613 sold over the years has changed at least once during that period and, likely, several times. This has occurred due to air quality regulations and other factors, too. I'm not sure about this, but I think the formulations of Krylon mass marketed paints are different from Krylon-Industrial, although certain "colors" may be the same.

[Tom R.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Having said all that...what's significant is the extent to which these formulas (translated into #'s) approximate original finishes. If your one who doesn't do restoration for a living, its constructive to look to those that are sufficiently familiar that you trust their experience.

Dickie's comments re SEM re helpful as well as those re Krylon 1613. I wouldn't buy into the new formulation of Krylon from what I've read but will experiment with other options.

[Jim D.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Jim-----


I did read John's post. He compares the original 1613 to the reformulated 511613. I have no doubt that those are different. Both of these are the mass-marketed type Krylon paints. However, if you read elsewhere in this thread you will note that others have confirmed that the 1613 remains available in Krylon-Industrial paint line. This is the higher quality paint line which, while a little harder to find than the consumer variety, is usually a higher quality product.

Sorry Joe, I got confused. I thought the 51613 was the industrial paint. For those that didn't know (myself included), the number for industrial semi-flat black is S03725 according to the Krylon site.

Jim

[Bob B.]

Try Seymour 16-838 Lacquer

Jeff,

I used the Seymour Hi-Tech Lacquer in semi-gloss for about everything that needed semi-gloss, including blackout. It looks pretty darn close to what you see on original cars. Part number is 16-838.

Bob

[Joe L.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Having said all that...what's significant is the extent to which these formulas (translated into #'s) approximate original finishes. If your one who doesn't do restoration for a living, its constructive to look to those that are sufficiently familiar that you trust their experience.

Dickie's comments re SEM re helpful as well as those re Krylon 1613. I wouldn't buy into the new formulation of Krylon from what I've read but will experiment with other options.

Tom-----


The problem is that there were "umpteen" different gloss levels originally used on Corvettes for chassis and other parts painted black. The 1613 is a good match for many, but it's definitely not a match for all. Some of these exhibit very subtle differences. However, when one looks at a "finished product" for any particular piece, a gloss level that's even slightly off seems to "stand out like a sore thumb".

As I've mentioned before, there was really no precise standard for the black finish to be used. Often times, a GM blueprint or specification will simply say "black finish". So, that leaves a LOT of discretion to the supplier or manufacturing source. Even a more "defined" color like Chevrolet orange varied. One would think that GM would have wanted to tie something like that down in a VERY precise manner. But, apparently, they did not do so. In the "military world", the government has "mil-specs" for colors that specify an exact color right down to a "gnat's ass". GM didn't do that. At least, they didn't for things like engine or chassis paints.

[Dick W.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Well I won't have to worry about it. I have a case of SEMS and my jobber keeps several cases in stock at all times. It covers with less material than the Kylon and appears to be quite a bit more durable.

[Art A.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Tom-----


The problem is that there were "umpteen" different gloss levels originally used on Corvettes for chassis and other parts painted black. The 1613 is a good match for many, but it's definitely not a match for all. Some of these exhibit very subtle differences. However, when one looks at a "finished product" for any particular piece, a gloss level that's even slightly off seems to "stand out like a sore thumb".

As I've mentioned before, there was really no precise standard for the black finish to be used. Often times, a GM blueprint or specification will simply say "black finish". So, that leaves a LOT of discretion to the supplier or manufacturing source. Even a more "defined" color like Chevrolet orange varied. One would think that GM would have wanted to tie something like that down in a VERY precise manner. But, apparently, they did not do so. In the "military world", the government has "mil-specs" for colors that specify an exact color right down to a "gnat's ass". GM didn't do that. At least, they didn't for things like engine or chassis paints.

Joe, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you but I've seen many,many GM drawings and don't ever recall seeing "black finish" as the technical term used for a parts painted surface. The drawings that you may have seen are probably just drawings of "released" parts. There are drawings called detailed drawings that were used internally that most likely have never seen the light of day outside GM. Just like the government, GM has DETAILED "specs" on everything. It may not be called out on a drawing that you have seen, but it differently is called out on the purchasing agreement and or a detailed drawing.

[Joe L.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Joe, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you but I've seen many,many GM drawings and don't ever recall seeing "black finish" as the technical term used for a parts painted surface. The drawings that you may have seen are probably just drawings of "released" parts. There are drawings called detailed drawings that were used internally that most likely have never seen the light of day outside GM. Just like the government, GM has DETAILED "specs" on everything. It may not be called out on a drawing that you have seen, but it differently is called out on the purchasing agreement and or a detailed drawing.

Art-----


Here are 4 examples of what I'm talking about that I obtained by just a quick perusal of a popular reference (and, which were thus easy for me to scan). I have seen MANY other GM drawings, including more detailed drawings, that have similar notations for the "black finish". I have seen very few that have more detailed specifications for the "black finish" to be used. For example, blueprints for fan blade assemblies and air cleaners usually have somewhat more specific instructions for the black finish to be used. Interior parts have much more detailed specs for finish since interior components are a part of "vehicle design". For most chassis parts, I don't think I've ever seen anything more specific than "black finish" or "black enamel" or "black lacquer".

Is it possible that more detailed specifications for the "black finish" were contained elsewhere in other documents furnished to suppliers of the parts? Of course it is. However, I do not understand why there would have been such lack of specificity on these drawings, especially when I have seen more specificity on similar drawings for other parts (e.g. the fan blade assemblies and air cleaners I mentioned earlier). Also, a reference to GM plating specifications is contained on most drawings for plated parts that I've seen.

In addition, I have seen such a wide variation in the various black finishes used even on the same part over the course of several years of its manufacture that it's hard to imagine that GM had "tight" specs for the finishes. If they did, they were widely ignored by suppliers.

[Art A.]

Re: Krylon 1613 discontinued

Art-----


Here are 4 examples of what I'm talking about that I obtained by just a quick perusal of a popular reference (and, which were thus easy for me to scan). I have seen MANY other GM drawings, including more detailed drawings, that have similar notations for the "black finish". I have seen very few that have more detailed specifications for the "black finish" to be used. For example, blueprints for fan blade assemblies and air cleaners usually have somewhat more specific instructions for the black finish to be used. Interior parts have much more detailed specs for finish since interior components are a part of "vehicle design". For most chassis parts, I don't think I've ever seen anything more specific than "black finish" or "black enamel" or "black lacquer".

Is it possible that more detailed specifications for the "black finish" were contained elsewhere in other documents furnished to suppliers of the parts? Of course it is. However, I do not understand why there would have been such lack of specificity on these drawings, especially when I have seen more specificity on similar drawings for other parts (e.g. the fan blade assemblies and air cleaners I mentioned earlier). Also, a reference to GM plating specifications is contained on most drawings for plated parts that I've seen.

In addition, I have seen such a wide variation in the various black finishes used even on the same part over the course of several years of its manufacture that it's hard to imagine that GM had "tight" specs for the finishes. If they did, they were widely ignored by suppliers.

Joe as I said earlier, I'm not going to get into a p*ssing contest with you about this. But I will offer this..........The four examples you show are NOT, I repeat NOT true GM drawings, and BTW they are called DRAWINGS, not blueprints, as they have been altered by someone for some reason. A TRUE GM drawing has a full title block in the lower right hand corner and give a lot of RELEASING information. Such as a releasing ECRs, Layouts, charted drawings, alternate usages, etc that gives very specific directions to the manufacturing source.

Drawings were not the entire package that a supplier got when he bid on a job.

Bed time for bonzo.

[Dick W.]

Replacement Paint for Krylon 1613

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