Frame Pull Date

[Stephen L.]

From time to time I've seen threads on "Frame Pull Date". I've often wondered the significance of this.

Why would GM go to the trouble of writing a date on a frame when they are going to use it immediately? (as in "take the next frame off the pile, Joe, and date it before you place it onto the chassis assy table"....)

If the frame is "in the assembly line system" then GM will already know when it started down the line, as they knew how long it took the assembly process to transpire.

Could that date be more significant as the date the frame was produced at the frame manufacturer, so that GM could find them in inventory if something like a "missed" weld were found in a batch of frames????

On later models (my 67 anyway) the date was stenciled along with the part number at the manufacturer.........OR Joe the date "stenciler", was very precise on the assy line.....

Comments?????

[John H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

From time to time I've seen threads on "Frame Pull Date". I've often wondered the significance of this.

I have too, and I worked there in '67, the year after they stopped doing it. I probably should have asked George Barlos or Phil Hawkins why they did it (and why they stopped), and I'd have the answer.

I spent 38 years in many different assembly plants, and that's the only instance I've ever seen of the plant applying a date to a part; we'll probably never know why St. Louis did that.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

Well, is the "pull date" really a myth??? and it's really a frame manufacturing date????

As you said, its about the only thing GM dated when they used it....

If it is a "pull" date, then it should always be within a couple of days of the body assy date on the trim tag. I don't know how long it took to assemble a chassis, but I believe the trim tag (ST LOUIS BODIES) date is always within a day or 2 of final assembly... so... say it took 3 days to assemble the chassis then those 2 dates would be very close.....

[Michael H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

Well, is the "pull date" really a myth??? and it's really a frame manufacturing date????

As you said, its about the only thing GM dated when they used it....

If it is a "pull" date, then it should always be within a couple of days of the body assy date on the trim tag. I don't know how long it took to assemble a chassis, but I believe the trim tag (ST LOUIS BODIES) date is always within a day or 2 of final assembly... so... say it took 3 days to assemble the chassis then those 2 dates would be very close.....

I know, for certain, that dates were hand written on the frame rails in the 70's and 80's. This occured just before the frame was pulled from the pile and set on the chassis conveyor. I watched this procedure many many times. (I also have some great shots of this)

I still question the possibility of a frame date proceding a body build date but I suppose it could have happened that way. I'll have to dig into this and figure it out but as I remember, the trim tag was already stamped and installed well before the frame was even pulled from the stack. (the body was WAY ahead of the chassis in production time)
It only required a few hours to slap the entire chassis together before body drop but the body build and hard trim required a lot longer.

Maybe John Hinckley can remember the timing of these items.

It's entirely possible, and likely, that the frame date is actually one or more days after the body build/trim tag date. (if a weekend were involved)
After the trim tag date/install, there was still a LOT of work/time on the body.

There weren't many frames inside the building at one time because of storage space so the flow of stacks of frames from the big stacks outside was almost continuous.

[John H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

Midyear frames were made across the river at the A.O. Smith-Granite City, Illinois plant, and were stenciled on their shipping dock. The frames were stored outdoors at St. Louis on a concrete "frame pad" just outside the building adjacent to the Frame Line. When a hi-lo driver brought a stack of frames inside and placed the stack at the end of the Frame Line, one of the guys in the first station wrote the "pull date" on each one as they came off the stack and went on the line. Ignoring weekends, that frame came off the line under a body either on second shift the same day or on day shift the following day.

If you look closely at the photo below (taken 9-20-65), you can see the "pull date" scrawled on the frames on the line, and a stack of fresh frames at the beginning of the line.

[Cecil L.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

My 66 L-72 with a body build date of C-12, body S1788 had the frame stencil like the 67's with the date in the stencil. Here is a pic of the number as it was carefully restored. Unfortunately the pic of the original stencil is pre-digital, not great quality and I haven't converted it yet so I can't present it side by side with the new stencil.. When I removed the body and cleaned the frame with soap and water, most of the shim marks were quite visible but I never found any sign of a hand written "pull date". Surely there are others out there.

Edit:
I found the old pics from 1990 when pulled the body. They are not really clear butit's the best could do scanning them into digital. I hope the numbers are legible.

[Michael H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

If anyone happens to have the Burroughs book, "Restoration, State Of The Art", I'm pretty sure the hand written date that was on the frame was very visible (and recreated) and pictured. I also think the trim tag build date was mentioned in the text. That would give us at least one example.
I know the VIN is 14,971 but I don't remember the build date.

By the way, where is that car today? I'm still trying to prove that 63-65 with tan soft tops were tan on the underside too and that car has it's original tan top.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

I see the date on the frame... the photo is from NOLAN ADAMS BOOK. I don't see a date stamp of 9/20/65 on the photo itself...... This photo could have been taken on 10/20/65..... or any date after 9/20/65. The date of the photo is NOT mentioned in the book.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

If anyone happens to have the Burroughs book, "Restoration, State Of The Art", I'm pretty sure the hand written date that was on the frame was very visible (and recreated) and pictured. I also think the trim tag build date was mentioned in the text. That would give us at least one example.
I know the VIN is 14,971 but I don't remember the build date.

By the way, where is that car today? I'm still trying to prove that 63-65 with tan soft tops were tan on the underside too and that car has it's original tan top.

Michael -- looking at my copy of the Burroughs book, I see that he bought it off you, and that you aquired it from Dangremond.

The crayon date (pics pgs. 54 & 55) show 4 / 19 / 65. I did a quick eyeball scan of the book and, other than saying that interior code was #415, there was no other mention of body # (or even if it was an S-body) or trim tag date code. Guess they weren't into tag pics back then

Here's a shot of it at the 1981 St.Louis National meet. Anybody recognize those present ?

[Michael H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

Michael -- looking at my copy of the Burroughs book, I see that he bought it off you, and that you aquired it from Dangremond.

The crayon date (pics pgs. 54 & 55) show 4 / 19 / 65. I did a quick eyeball scan of the book and, other than saying that interior code was #415, there was no other mention of body # (or even if it was an S-body) or trim tag date code. Guess they weren't into tag pics back then

Here's a shot of it at the 1981 St.Louis National meet. Anybody recognize those present ?

Thanks Wayne. Yup, that's my old 396 car. I just entered the VIN (14,971) into the NCRSWI birthday calculator and it showed an aprox build date of 13 April, six days BEFORE the frame date. The calculator may be off a day or two one way or the other but that certainly suggests that the hand written frame date was probably NOT typically several days before the body build date.
I can't explain the long gap (6 days) but it's possible that this body was taken off line and wound up in the "show job" area because the car was to be used by GM photographic before sold to the general public.

Where are all the other owners that have info/pic's and data on original frame dates???? I'm surprised there isn't more input on this topic with all the attention frame markings get these days.

By the way, your picture does show the light color (tan) of the underside of the tan soft top. These weren't black o tan tops like most people think.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

...the NCRSWI birthday calculator and it showed an aprox build date of 13 April, six days BEFORE the frame date. The calculator may be off a day or two one way or the other but that certainly suggests that the hand written frame date was probably NOT typically several days before the body build date.
I can't explain the long gap (6 days) but it's possible that this body was taken off line and wound up in the "show job" area because the car was to be used by GM photographic before sold to the general public.

Michael --- My BAD. Should'a said 4_9_65. I read the slash before the "9" as "19" (too early in the morning) . Also, text under one of the pics says: "the date corresponds to a Friday, and the car was completed on the following Monday, April 12th" (I missed that too )

Also, on the original (pre-restoration shot) the crayon pull date is a tad more orange than is the slash for the shim count.

[Michael H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

I see the date on the frame... the photo is from NOLAN ADAMS BOOK. I don't see a date stamp of 9/20/65 on the photo itself...... This photo could have been taken on 10/20/65..... or any date after 9/20/65. The date of the photo is NOT mentioned in the book.

Stephen,

If the hand written date on the frame was added at the start of the frame line at the St Louis plant just before it was set on the frame conveyor, that would pretty much indicate that the photo was taken on that same day.

[Michael H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

Michael --- My BAD. Should'a said 4_9_65. I read the slash before the "9" as "19" (too early in the morning) . Also, text under one of the pics says: "the date corresponds to a Friday, and the car was completed on the following Monday, April 12th" (I missed that too )

Also, on the original (pre-restoration shot) the crayon pull date is a tad more orange than is the slash for the shim count.

Ok, thanks Wayne. That makes more sense now. It does show that the frame was dated before the tag though.
I would then have to guess that the timing on these two processes was pretty close as far as assemblyk, with the frame date slightly ahead of the trim tag time. (my original guess was that the trim tag stamp/install was a few hours ahead of the frame date instead of after)

If the frame was dated late on the shift on the last work day of the week, the body tag was probably stamped/installed early on the next work day.

So, it looks like the frame date could be the same as the body date or one working day prior.

[John H.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

I see the date on the frame... the photo is from NOLAN ADAMS BOOK. I don't see a date stamp of 9/20/65 on the photo itself...... This photo could have been taken on 10/20/65..... or any date after 9/20/65. The date of the photo is NOT mentioned in the book.

Steve -

I have the original high-resolution image from GM Photographic, and in it you can see the "20-9-65" pull date scrawled on all the frames on the line, all the way back to the frame stack at the head end of the line; that's the day the photo was shot.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Frame Pull Date

John,
I can see the frame dates on the assembly table and I believe you that the stack in the background also has the same date.

You have the high resolution image from GM. Does IT have a date associated with it (stamped on the back or something that says the photo was taken on Sept 20 1965)????