Getting My Car Judged

[Eric J.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

Generally you would want to remove the stereo. I would do it only because the judge will then begin to question other parts of the car. If you have a stereo in the glove box then it will probably deviate in other areas like paint sheen etc. Since the glove box had to be removed lets look real close at the fasteners that hold it in. Since the dash has been worked on lets see if there are extra wires under it etc. A hole may only be a point, but a hole with a stereo feeding through it may be that point plus 10 others they go looking for.

A third flight level car never gets the benefit of the doubt like a Top Flight Level car. Remember these Judges have volunteered their time to judge your car. Each section can take up to an hour of their time. You should take it seriously. Make sure your engine and engine pad are clean of grease etc so the parts can be seen etc. Blatently deviating such as leaving change in the ash tray or floor mats in says you didn't take it seriously.

[Joe C.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

If you remove the stereo, you are left with the hole.
I agree with John H, that the hole will be a "condition" issue, affecting the glove box liner.

Here's a quick way to beat that:

1. Remove the stereo.
2. Wire in a "dummy" rocker switch and install it in the rectanular hole in the glove box. Use a pair of 12 ga red wires leading through the hole, and terminating out of sight in the upper dash.
3. (OPTIONAL) Wire those 2 leads to interrupt the purple solenoid energizer lead at the starter.
4. (IMPORTANT) Tell the judges that it is a dealer installed "fairly inconspicuous starter kill switch".
5. After returning home with your well deserved Top Flight ribbon, remove the bogus kill switch and re-install your radio.

Joe

[Kirk M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

If you remove the stereo, you are left with the hole.
I agree with John H, that the hole will be a "condition" issue, affecting the glove box liner.

Here's a quick way to beat that:

1. Remove the stereo.
2. Wire in a "dummy" rocker switch and install it in the rectanular hole in the glove box. Use a pair of 12 ga red wires leading through the hole, and terminating out of sight in the upper dash.
3. (OPTIONAL) Wire those 2 leads to interrupt the purple solenoid energizer lead at the starter.
4. (IMPORTANT) Tell the judges that it is a dealer installed "fairly inconspicuous starter kill switch".
5. After returning home with your well deserved Top Flight ribbon, remove the bogus kill switch and re-install your radio.

Joe

Unfortunately, the hole is the size of the stereo unit so I would have to use something the size of a home light switch plate for the rocker switch panel - maybe I could say I have a vision problem and needed an extra-large cut-off switch to see it. I'll make sure and wear my glasses!

This does bring up some interesting issues though. I DRIVE my car as much as I can. Part of driving my car includes wanting to hear modern music (rather than the original radio - which by the way still works through the single front speaker). However, I think I am as dedicated as most other NCRS members in trying to the best of my ability and wallet (both limited) to restore my DRIVER to original condition. I think it is great that the NCRS does the best it can to allow someone in my position to get his car judged. Clearly if someone who wanted to trailer-queen my car bought it from me tomorrow, they could remove all the modern stereo equipment and wires in less than an hour and replace the liner and have exactly what they wanted. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm somewhere in between the restomod and trailer queen groups. My point being, I love my vette and care as much about its history and maintenance as any NCRS member who only trailers their car - it's just my choice to drive it to meets. To me if I can restore it to excellent condition and still drive it and get it judged that just makes the whole thing that much more fun!!!! It's like having a broken "antique" that is representative of something versus one that still actually works - the working one is just cooler to me!

[Kevin M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

A good boom box behind the seats, if ya want tunes and judge use a boom box. I would never cut or modify my original car in any way for a stereo, when I'm driving a 40 year old car it's original radio works just fine. Now you can, make a new rear compartment cover mount your speakers and stereo to the bottom run some power and you got the best of both worlds with very easy no deduct mod.


Kevin

[Joe C.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

Unfortunately, the hole is the size of the stereo unit so I would have to use something the size of a home light switch plate for the rocker switch panel - maybe I could say I have a vision problem and needed an extra-large cut-off switch to see it. I'll make sure and wear my glasses!

This does bring up some interesting issues though. I DRIVE my car as much as I can. Part of driving my car includes wanting to hear modern music (rather than the original radio - which by the way still works through the single front speaker). However, I think I am as dedicated as most other NCRS members in trying to the best of my ability and wallet (both limited) to restore my DRIVER to original condition. I think it is great that the NCRS does the best it can to allow someone in my position to get his car judged. Clearly if someone who wanted to trailer-queen my car bought it from me tomorrow, they could remove all the modern stereo equipment and wires in less than an hour and replace the liner and have exactly what they wanted. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm somewhere in between the restomod and trailer queen groups. My point being, I love my vette and care as much about its history and maintenance as any NCRS member who only trailers their car - it's just my choice to drive it to meets. To me if I can restore it to excellent condition and still drive it and get it judged that just makes the whole thing that much more fun!!!! It's like having a broken "antique" that is representative of something versus one that still actually works - the working one is just cooler to me!

Oh.......... OK.
Contact Roy Braatz for info. about the optional, dealer installed, "fairly inconspicuous" starter interrupt switch with attached Kleenex@ Holder. If I remember correctly, this requires a "stereo sized" rectangular hole in the glove box liner, for the Kleenex@ Holder.
Be sure to show the judges your certified, notarized dealer prep checklist, showing dealer installation of the "Optional Starter Interrupt Switch With Attached Kleenex@ Holder".

Furthermore, you should NOT drive your Corvette! I hate to admonish you, but, don't you realize how much it's worth. Besides, who cares about the supposed value, but, but, what about preserving HISTORY. These cars were meant to be trailered, not driven.

Joe



Joe

[Eric J.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

Kirk, IMHO driving a vintage Corvette is the truest way of enjoying it. I commend you. I have a 63 Roadster that I will never flight judge. So I have cart blanche to modify, although it is very close to stock. Eric

[Mike G.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

the paint and stamp pad are the only 2 big items you have to worry about. nothing else can hurt you that bad.

[Kirk M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

Oh.......... OK.
Contact Roy Braatz for info. about the optional, dealer installed, "fairly inconspicuous" starter interrupt switch with attached Kleenex@ Holder. If I remember correctly, this requires a "stereo sized" rectangular hole in the glove box liner, for the Kleenex@ Holder.
Be sure to show the judges your certified, notarized dealer prep checklist, showing dealer installation of the "Optional Starter Interrupt Switch With Attached Kleenex@ Holder".

Furthermore, you should NOT drive your Corvette! I hate to admonish you, but, don't you realize how much it's worth. Besides, who cares about the supposed value, but, but, what about preserving HISTORY. These cars were meant to be trailered, not driven.

Joe



Joe

Hey, how did you know I had that checklist with just that item on it!

[Jack H.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

The NCRS policy is to ENCOURAGE owners to drive/use their Corvettes! That's why we give mileage driven credits during Flight Judging. The only caveat is these bonus points can NOT be used by those going for the top drawer restoration award (Mark of Excellence)....

But, if your intention is to have a nice looking/nicely performing, basically stock, driver car, then you're in LUCK.... NCRS IS the club for you!

Another made comment to the effect that space at Regional and National meets was limited and cars that are below MoE level rob others from the opportunity to pursue their awards. HOGWASH!

Every meet judging chairman is free to define what a judging 'Division' is in order to accommodate all who register in a timely manner to have their cars judged. Heck, I've been to NCRS National meets where two judging divisions were created to handle the traffic load of 1965 cars present by making one Division for BB and another for SB. With as many qualified judges attending our meets today, it's the number of cars that limits us; NOT the floor space and/or manpower to judge!

Plus, for those who don't want to shell out the BIG $$$ to turn 'baby' into a museum piece you're afraid to use/drive, there are other separate award/recognition categories beyond Flight and MoE that were tailored just for you! Crack open a copy of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual and check out the Founders Award, the Sportsman Award and the Sam Folz Award.

These were specifically tailored for those who prefer to use/drive their Corvettes instead of making Mona Liza artwork from them! Folks who vie for these awards attend Chapter, Regional and National meets with relaxed attitudes and smiles on their faces instead of sweat on their brow....

So, plan your car's campaign and don't force feed yourself along the path of Flight/MoE if it isn't your intention to climb Mount Everest and/or paint yourself into a corner with your classic Corvette!

[Kirk M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

A good boom box behind the seats, if ya want tunes and judge use a boom box. I would never cut or modify my original car in any way for a stereo, when I'm driving a 40 year old car it's original radio works just fine. Now you can, make a new rear compartment cover mount your speakers and stereo to the bottom run some power and you got the best of both worlds with very easy no deduct mod.


Kevin

I agree. My "original" glove box liner is in a drawer. I cut a repro and installed that when I put the stereo in. Radio unit is held in place by two of the existing glove box screws at the front. All I have to do is loosen them up and it slides out, unplug the unit and it's gone. The wires would have to be removed, but they were installed with no damage to original wiring - which mine is. Speaker wire is completely hidden and two box speakers sit behind the seats. Slide the speaker wire out and remove the box speakers (not attached in any way, just sitting there). So, I really haven't permanently modified my 67 in any way - everything is removable with no damage to the car! All I have to do is re-install original glove box liner and that would be that. Works for me!

[Kirk M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

The NCRS policy is to ENCOURAGE owners to drive/use their Corvettes! That's why we give mileage driven credits during Flight Judging. The only caveat is these bonus points can NOT be used by those going for the top drawer restoration award (Mark of Excellence)....

But, if your intention is to have a nice looking/nicely performing, basically stock, driver car, then you're in LUCK.... NCRS IS the club for you!

Another made comment to the effect that space at Regional and National meets was limited and cars that are below MoE level rob others from the opportunity to pursue their awards. HOGWASH!

Every meet judging chairman is free to define what a judging 'Division' is in order to accommodate all who register in a timely manner to have their cars judged. Heck, I've been to NCRS National meets where two judging divisions were created to handle the traffic load of 1965 cars present by making one Division for BB and another for SB. With as many qualified judges attending our meets today, it's the number of cars that limits us; NOT the floor space and/or manpower to judge!

Plus, for those who don't want to shell out the BIG $$$ to turn 'baby' into a museum piece you're afraid to use/drive, there are other separate award/recognition categories beyond Flight and MoE that were tailored just for you! Crack open a copy of the NCRS Judging Reference Manual and check out the Founders Award, the Sportsman Award and the Sam Folz Award.

These were specifically tailored for those who prefer to use/drive their Corvettes instead of making Mona Liza artwork from them! Folks who vie for these awards attend Chapter, Regional and National meets with relaxed attitudes and smiles on their faces instead of sweat on their brow....

So, plan your car's campaign and don't force feed yourself along the path of Flight/MoE if it isn't your intention to climb Mount Everest and/or paint yourself into a corner with your classic Corvette!

As you mention, those are exactly the type of awards I would like to go for. I understand the limitations of my car and my desire and I am glad the NCRS is accepting of people like me - no, I applaud them for doing so.

[Eric J.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

Kirk, NCRS is the club for you. I only wanted to encourage you to restore it. After all that's what the 'R' stands for.. I modified my previous post because this far into the thread it really serves little purpose. As far as spots for flight judging well having helped put a regional together once many years ago (and only once) I had a hard time getting enough judges to complete the judging in a timely manner. Not trying to offend anyone, just trying to give my $.02 about what to do with the glove box. Eric

[Brian M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

BTW does the original radio work? That's where you could take the biggest point hit.

[Kirk M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

BTW does the original radio work? That's where you could take the biggest point hit.

Yes, it does and through the original single speaker up front. My "radio guy" installed the most awesome switch in my wiring so that when the original radio is turned on at the dash the other system goes dead and the original radio only plays through the front speaker. Turn it off, and my modern system is back in action. As I mentioned in another section, I have really worked hard to keep my car original while enjoying its performance as well. No mods that I have done have damaged any original parts and in a matter of an hour or so I could probably have every single thing removed and back to "original". Working on your car in this manner poses its own set of challenges that I enjoy. For example, box speakers just sitting behind the seats with a small piece of velcro holding them to the carpet so when I accelerate or stop quickly they don't fly forward. Disconnect the wires and pull them out, roll the wires under the far back carper and bingo no speakers. Didn't mount a CD changes in the storage compartment so no mods in there - I use a single wire from the glove box unit to my Ipod. Small infared wire for remote so I don't have to open the glove box to control the stereo. Again, roll it up and tuck it under the dash.

Anyway, on top of all that I have replaced almost every part in the engine compartment to original rebuilt parts - starter, carb, alternator, and so on (I'm doing the master cylinder and having my power brake booster recondition and colored this winter. I have even replaced screws for correct head markings, re-installed brackets to hold my AC hoses, correctly marked hoses and clamps, corrected breather tube and bracket so that I could properly mount kickdown lever (yes it's an auto) with the proper two lime-green springs, re-attached all grounding straps, reconditioned AC drier that was original, rebuilt POV valve that was original and on and on. My point is I have dedicated a lot of effort (and money) to learn about this car over the past couple of years and done everything I can to return her to original. I guess I'm as passionate about that as I am about driving her.

So, I will go for the appropriate awards for my "class" and hopefully enjoy the best of both worlds. Thanks for all the great comments.

[Kevin M.]

Re: Getting My Car Judged

Yes, it does and through the original single speaker up front. My "radio guy" installed the most awesome switch in my wiring so that when the original radio is turned on at the dash the other system goes dead and the original radio only plays through the front speaker. Turn it off, and my modern system is back in action. As I mentioned in another section, I have really worked hard to keep my car original while enjoying its performance as well. No mods that I have done have damaged any original parts and in a matter of an hour or so I could probably have every single thing removed and back to "original". Working on your car in this manner poses its own set of challenges that I enjoy. For example, box speakers just sitting behind the seats with a small piece of velcro holding them to the carpet so when I accelerate or stop quickly they don't fly forward. Disconnect the wires and pull them out, roll the wires under the far back carper and bingo no speakers. Didn't mount a CD changes in the storage compartment so no mods in there - I use a single wire from the glove box unit to my Ipod. Small infared wire for remote so I don't have to open the glove box to control the stereo. Again, roll it up and tuck it under the dash.

Anyway, on top of all that I have replaced almost every part in the engine compartment to original rebuilt parts - starter, carb, alternator, and so on (I'm doing the master cylinder and having my power brake booster recondition and colored this winter. I have even replaced screws for correct head markings, re-installed brackets to hold my AC hoses, correctly marked hoses and clamps, corrected breather tube and bracket so that I could properly mount kickdown lever (yes it's an auto) with the proper two lime-green springs, re-attached all grounding straps, reconditioned AC drier that was original, rebuilt POV valve that was original and on and on. My point is I have dedicated a lot of effort (and money) to learn about this car over the past couple of years and done everything I can to return her to original. I guess I'm as passionate about that as I am about driving her.

So, I will go for the appropriate awards for my "class" and hopefully enjoy the best of both worlds. Thanks for all the great comments.

Kirk,

Sounds like a great car and you've done the right thing restoring it with original parts, glad the factory box is safe.

Kevin