1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention - NCRS Discussion Boards

1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention

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  • Michael J.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • January 27, 2009
    • 7122

    #31
    Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record

    Too funny! That was real "science" in the day I guess.....
    Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

    Comment

    • Duke W.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • January 1, 1993
      • 15678

      #32
      Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record

      Wayne -

      I'd be happy to get at least one data point for drag and velocity in the final configuration, and with that I could at least calculate a ball park figure for the Cd using the 80 percent of overall width times height.

      Back in my senior year at the U. of Washington in the spring of '68 we (my ME lab course prof. and students) took my SWC out to Kent (now called Pacific Raceways) and did a bunch of coast down tests with various weights added to the car, which gave us the data we needed to compute rolling resistance and aero drag using published empirically derived formulas. I let my lab partner keep the report, but his parents sold their house a few years later, and it disappeared. Unfortunately, I don't remember the results.

      Jack -

      Those photos are of a model of the '63 SWC in the Cal Tech wind tunnel, and the man with the bow tie and glasses is Dr. Peter Kyropolis of Cal Tech. This testing was documented in Corvette News. Drops of black ink were placed on the body before the wind was turned on that showed how the air flowed over the body at the completion of the test, and it looks like there is flow separation at the very back of the upper body contour. Too bad it isn't an inch or two higher

      GM did not have a wind tunnel back then and nobody had a very good understanding of ground vehicle aerodynamics. The predominant theory was to make the shape smooth and tapered like an aircraft fuselage, which is right when it's up in the air, but any pilot understands the "ground effect" just before touchdown, which adds a whole new dimension.

      The lowest photo is, of course, Larry Shinoda, and I recall reading an article years ago when he was still with us that he admitted that the '63 SWC had a drag coefficient of about 0.50. Compare that to a modern car, which are usually no more than about 0.35. It's not so much the overall shape, but the myriad of details like bumpers faired into the bodywork, flush glass, low front ends and high tails, fender contours close to the tires, and partial or even near full belly pans... lots of little design details that add up to significantly lower Cd values for modern cars.

      Apparently there were no automotive designers back then who were pilots that understood that a vehicle close to the ground is not like an airplane at altitude, and there was little communication between aircraft and automotive designers. I read long ago that Richie Ginther invented the rear spoiler. He was not educated in aerodynamics, but had an intuitive feel for what was happening at high speed that lead to instability. I'm not sure who "invented" the front air dam, but by the mid sixties it was understood that the front end should be as low to the ground as possible.

      That SWC model in the wind tunnel did not have a grille opening and probably didn't have the "dirty" bottom side that is typical of most production cars, so the data and conclusions likely had little validity for the real car.

      When the GT-40 design was initially developed it had an elaborate cockpit ventilation system. Top speed at Lemans was well short of the calculated 205 MPH and the car was unstable. The rear developed a rotary oscillation like and arrow without feathers, so they added a rear spoiler like the one that Ginther designed in 1962 for the Ferrari 250 GTO. When Shelby took over the program for the '65 season he eliminated this system and went through a couple of front end designs before settling on the one we are all familiar with.

      IIRC an SAE paper stated that the ventilation system cost 50 horsepower at top speed?

      Duke
      Last edited by Duke W.; August 12, 2024, 09:40 PM.

      Comment

      • Jack M.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • March 1, 1991
        • 1159

        #33
        Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record

        Originally posted by Duke Williams (22045)

        Those photos are of a model of the '63 SWC in the Cal Tech wind tunnel...
        Duke- Thatz correct... earlier today, I sent Wayne a couple articles on this specific testing.
        The one from the Restorer was from 1986, but another automotive magazine article was from 1962.

        Comment

        • Tom D.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • September 30, 1981
          • 2134

          #34
          Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record

          A great reason to go to Las Vegas next year!
          https://MichiganNCRS.org
          Michigan Chapter
          Tom Dingman

          Comment

          • Wayne Y.
            Frequent User
            • March 10, 2015
            • 41

            #35
            Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record

            Absolutely Tom! Looking forward to bringing the car to the Vegas National next year!
            Here’s a couple more shots that a ‘real’ photographer just sent me this week…

            -Wayne

            IMG_0231.jpg

            IMG_0232.jpg

            IMG_0229.jpg

            Comment

            • Michael J.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • January 27, 2009
              • 7122

              #36
              Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record

              Wow, super picture Wayne! So cool!
              Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

              Comment

              • Wayne Y.
                Frequent User
                • March 10, 2015
                • 41

                #37
                Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention


                Back in August, I posted here about setting a new land speed (223.490 mph) record during Speed Week, at the Bonneville Salt Flats.



                Not too bad for a naturally aspirated (carbureted) 427 sitting on a stock 1965 chassis, and running on gasoline!

                In-car video of the final run can be viewed here:
                https://youtu.be/0tQlezPf6qY

                Thx,
                Wayne

                IMG_0267.jpg

                IMG_0268.jpg

                IMG_0269.jpg

                Comment

                • Don H.
                  Moderator
                  • June 16, 2009
                  • 2262

                  #38
                  Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention

                  I can't wait to see that car at South Point next Summer!

                  Comment

                  • Michael J.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • January 27, 2009
                    • 7122

                    #39
                    Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention

                    Congratulations Wayne! Well done!
                    Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

                    Comment

                    • Wayne Y.
                      Frequent User
                      • March 10, 2015
                      • 41

                      #40
                      Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention

                      Me too! The car, me & my crew guys are all planning to be there!

                      Comment

                      • Jack M.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • March 1, 1991
                        • 1159

                        #41
                        Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention

                        CONGRATS on the new record... glad it also stayed straight this time, when you pulled the chute.

                        Comment

                        • Wayne Y.
                          Frequent User
                          • March 10, 2015
                          • 41

                          #42

                          Comment

                          • Roger W.
                            Very Frequent User
                            • January 29, 2008
                            • 567

                            #43
                            Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention

                            Wayne. The car seemed to be more stable this time than your last run in August. Until you pulled the shoot it was like you were driving on the interstate at highway speeds. Congratulations.

                            Comment

                            • Tim G.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • March 1, 1990
                              • 1378

                              #44
                              Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record will be at 2025 Convention

                              This is truly amazing; I've been reading this story and just had to post something.

                              Comment

                              • Steven B.
                                Extremely Frequent Poster
                                • June 30, 1982
                                • 3990

                                #45
                                Re: 1965 Corvette New Bonneville Record

                                Originally posted by Steven Brohard (5759)
                                Congratulations Wayne and crew! YAll remember Barry Bach (sp?) in Corvette News way back when? I have to dig it out or the Moon Eyes yellow 58 Corvette at Bonneville? If you have never been to the Salt or volunteered on a team do it. It is the experience of a life time!

                                I think this is the Corvette News for Barry Bocks 65: Corvette News 1965 Vol 9 No 2

                                A Nassau Blue couple also. That is part of what makes these two go so fast.

                                Comment

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