Car Show Survey Question

[Doug F.]

Hi fellow members, I'm doing a mini survey to find out how the majority of car shows you folks are familiar with or attend do judging and how they present awards. My reason for asking is this: We have a large (300 car) Corvette show here in S.E. Washington State in September each year and a bone of contention with many of us is the way it is judged for awards. The folks that promote this show insist on having the participants do the judging and if you do the math and spend about 2 minutes looking at each entry to judge it against the others, it can take around 3 hours to do this. (1) I'm 75 years old and disabled so to spend 3 hours walking around trying to pretend I'm a judge and being fair is ridiculous in my book. (2) I don't go to car shows to judge them-I go to relax, see the other cars I want to see and shoot the breeze with fellow car owners and visitors who have questions or comments. The other issue involves what I consider to be discrimination and I don't take that word lightly. My wife and I own a C2 classic but most of the cars entered in this show I mentioned are later model cars. In past years, the promoters have awarded one class winner (1st, 2nd & 3rd) for C-1/C-2 combined "because there aren't that many classic cars entered". Last year there were probably twenty-five cars in the C-1/C-2 class (not enough??). Then starting in C-4 (not sure what they do with C-3's), they award 1st, 2nd & 3rd for coupes and repeat that for convertibles (six awards per class) all the way up thru C-8. So, that being said, just wondering how they do things in other parts of the country so would really appreciate any feedback you folks might be willing to share with me so maybe we can make a case with the promoters for changes in this year's show. Thanks, Doug

[Bill M.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Doug many years ago I was judging a corvette show in the Hudson valley. When I got to the first mid year the owner said to me I defy you to find one speck of dirt on my engine. I replied I defy you to find one correct component on your engine. I was pulled aside and told this is a show and shine show. So my point most of these shows are all about spit and shine not correctness. Also depends on the owners some people seem to win all the time. Discourages out side people from participating

[Doug F.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly Bill but as you pointed out, we're talking about two kinds of judging here and I was a little concerned that members thoughts might go right to our NCRS Flight judging (etc) activities. Been down that road with our car, too but right now I'm focused on trying to see how the "show & shine" events are run in other areas. We're trying to convince the promoters to go to independent judging which, in my opinion is much fairer and it saves the promoters a ton of work in arranging, tabulating, counting, separating, etc. all the votes that are turned in. When participants do the judging, the whole thing turns into a s--t show and popularity contest. Clubs vote for fellow club members to see how many awards "their" club can take home and so on. Just looking for more ammo to use in our arguments here for a better show, I guess. Cute story about the conversation you had with the Corvette owner, by the way! Thanks, Doug

[Michael J.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

I suggest you use the Concours de Elegance type judging, the French System, very subjective and it can go fast:

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[Stephen L.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Mopars at Carlisle have participant judging, however, the cars are classified in catagories when entered; make, year, modified, stock etc. When you get a judging sheet, you only have to judge a few predetermined classes. You CANNOT/DO NOT judge the class your car is entered in.

[Doug F.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Thank you, Michael. That certainly makes sense and I appreciate the response.

Doug

[Mark E.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Can you show up with your car, ignore any judging responsibilities, and just relax, see the other cars you want to see and shoot the breeze?

This avoids the hassle of trying to convince a committee to change.

[Doug F.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

That sounds like a better idea than what we're dealing with here in E. Washington St. That would eliminate folks from voting for their own car & most of the time their friends or club associates have the same type of cars they do so they couldn't vote for those. Makes sense and is a step in the right direction but I'm still thinking independent judging by unaffiliated, knowledgeable car folks is the right answer to fairness. Just don't think participants should be told "hey, you're judging cars today" when they come to the show to relax, hob nob and just enjoy the beauty & craftsmanship in the other cars.

[Doug F.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

I've been checking off the boxes in a few categories close to where I'm parked and essentially ignoring the rest, so I do have time to relax and enjoy the show but I'm getting to point where I like your idea better. In a way, the awards are a bit silly and worthless except for the fact that all of us who own classic, custom or rare late model cars (Corvettes) appreciate recognition for our work or investment and the realization that others appreciate them, too. I guess that's one of the motivating factors that do make these shows enjoyable. It's a competition of sorts and who doesn't like to be the "winner", right? Making the participants do the judging is the lazy way for promoters to cover those bases because they don't have to mess with finding qualified judges but in the end, the folks putting the shows on still have to spend the time and effort in separating and counting all those "votes" (which the independent judges could have already done). Like I said in the beginning, just wondering how things are done elsewhere (and venting :-).

[Patrick H.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Stop judging the cars.

That will fix the problem, and you’ll all probably have more fun.

I don’t go to local shows that are “judged”, and haven’t in…ever.

[Larry E.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Can you show up with your car, ignore any judging responsibilities, and just relax, see the other cars you want to see and shoot the breeze?

This avoids the hassle of trying to convince a committee to change.

Mark: I would say no. Most of Corvette owners are "Purest and Perfectionist". It is just
"built in" as with any true car enthusiast. JMHO Thanks>Larry

[Doug F.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

That idea does have some appeal to it but I think my competitive nature wants the judging to be part of the show and I think most folks that attend shows like that probably feel as though the excitement (if you want to go so far as to call it that) of waiting to hear your name called and know that whoever judged the cars felt as though yours stood out from the rest. It's very hard to keep the subjectivity out of the equation no matter who does the judging because we all harbor our prejudices and favorites when it comes to cars and those are going to shine through no matter what anybody says. We're all proud of our cars or we wouldn't own them and I don't care who we are, we all appreciate recognition for all to work and love we put into them so yeah, it feels pretty good to get handed a little $$15.00 trophy or plaque in front of the crowd and until that wears off or we can't get in & out of the car anymore, the wife and I will probably keep going. Appreciate your input.

[Mark F.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

That idea does have some appeal to it but I think my competitive nature wants the judging to be part of the show and I think most folks that attend shows like that probably feel as though the excitement (if you want to go so far as to call it that) of waiting to hear your name called and know that whoever judged the cars felt as though yours stood out from the rest. It's very hard to keep the subjectivity out of the equation no matter who does the judging because we all harbor our prejudices and favorites when it comes to cars and those are going to shine through no matter what anybody says. We're all proud of our cars or we wouldn't own them and I don't care who we are, we all appreciate recognition for all to work and love we put into them so yeah, it feels pretty good to get handed a little $$15.00 trophy or plaque in front of the crowd and until that wears off or we can't get in & out of the car anymore, the wife and I will probably keep going. Appreciate your input.

To each his own. I'm not part of the crowd that says "Everybody-Gets-a-Prize" venue.
I'm not interested in plastic trophies for anything.
And as for being forced into Judging at an event that is supposed to be fun, was it Nancy Reagan who said "Just Say NO" ?

[Mike D.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

We have talked to the top dog at Corvettes On The Columbia about not combining C1s and C2s for years. I don't see that changing. Your 66 has done well at the show and you should be proud of that. BTW, Stephen, we can't vote for a car in our class so that is covered. I for one am not going to judge 60 C 8s or 55 C 7s. I understand the popularity contest is not ideal, yet I am there to look at the beautiful cars and hang out with my NCRS peeps and other corvette friends. We don't have to vote for the cars if we don't want to. Since Tammy fills out our ballot, she might fill out Doug's also.

[Doug F.]

Re: Car Show Survey Question

Hi Mark, I understand where you're coming from & appreciate your thoughts. The wife and I have found some shows to be enjoyable (and some not). One show, for instance, we've attended for the last 3 years is in LaGrande, Oregon and it's really fun. The folks there put on a nice dinner for the participants on Friday evening, then they shut down main street on Saturday for the car show (250+ cars) and hand out 1/2 price discount cards for practically any restaurant in town, awards on Saturday afternoon (nicer than usual trophies) and then we go for a cruise & poker run out through a beautiful valley near town. Saturday evening we're back on Main Street (closed to everyone but us) for a cruise up and down while waving and hobnobbing with the locals sitting in their chairs on the sidewalks. Sponsors are also in the crowd & if they see a car they really like, they'll stop that car and hand them a really nice plaque. Sunday morning they put on a breakfast before we leave and head home. All this plus meeting some of the nicest people you can imaging. That's a very pleasurable and special way to spend a weekend my friend and all this for $30 entry fee. Of course you add $300 for a motel room plus the fuel it takes to get there but still, a lot of fun. I wish I was smart enough to post a pic on this site because if I was, I'd show you a trophy we won last summer at a local show wherein we were presented with a "best in show" trophy hand made from diesel engine parts. The piston sits on top, and a skeleton face has been machined into it with a cigar sticking out through his teeth (50 cal machine gun brass) and it is the coolest thing you can imagine so not all trophies are of the $15.00 variety. This thing weighs about 35 lbs & it sits smack dab on a counter between our living room and kitchen where we can see it every day. So they can be fun, Mark but a few of them need improvements and as far as being told I'm a judge instead of a participant when I arrive at a show, saying "no" is exactly what I've been doing & that's why I've reached out to our membership to see how things are run elsewhere and give myself (hopefully) more ammo to use when I go to argue with folks putting these things on who think having the participants do the judging is the right way to do it. Thanks, again. Doug