Lifter wear and conditions it creates

[Nick D.]

[Mark E.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

I understand the sentiment of it doesn't matter if it fails since you're replacing it anyway. But be aware it can fail unexpectedly and leave you stranded (e.g. spun bearing, broken cam, etc.).

[Joe L.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

Any time galled lifters are found it's virtually a 100 percent certainty that the cam lobes are galled, too. Whether the initial damage was caused by a lobe or lifter is irrelevant, both cam and lifters need to be changed. I'm appalled that any "professional", (i.e. one that charges for his services regardless of being competent or not) mechanic wouldn't know that.


Duke

Duke------


I TOTALLY agree. Utter incompetence to do what has been done in this case.

[Joe L.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

Engine is stock Chevelle/Monte Carlo 350, made for 4 spd, 4 bbl according to GM Heritage code matching.

Yes, you are correct, new lifters put in, nothing else. Doesn't sound like the valves were adjusted either.

The head rebuilding shop (Pat's Cylinder Head Rebuilding) invoice copy that I finally got a copy of did not list any new parts, just valve and seat grinding. He was an old timer. He said the heads were fine, engine solid, the culprit to spark plug fouling was the 650 carb that a carb expert had put on, not oil.

The oil used was 20w 50.

I live on Maui. It's not like the mainland. I don't have the same resources here that you guys take for granted. I doubt that what I am experiencing here would probably not happen there. Trust and blind faith surely are not appropriate here.

Nick------


IF there is a competent automotive machine shop on Maui, the engine you have can be rebuilt. All of the parts you will need are easy to obtain. If they cannot be sourced locally, you could easily obtain them via mail order.

[Nick D.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

I hear you and am thinking this over. I'll let the car sit at home while I figure this out.

I am very oriented toward preservation in general and my best wish would be to preserve what I have. With a median home value of $1.2 mil here, yes its a small island and good mechanics aren't easy to find (or hire), but there is talent here. I just need some aloha so lets see what turns up.

My mechanic saw no problem in doing the valve job and following lifter replacement without changing the oil... I leared a big lesson with this guy...

[Nick D.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

OK, I figured out what to do. I removed the oil pan and saw disaster, pics attached.

Best to ship it my car back across the ocean to do some other stuff and see if my engine can be rebuilt, meaning, have the metal shavings damaged the engine too far. If so, they'll give me another 350 that matches connections to my original 4 spd. I can't trust a shop here on Maui or even Honolulu.

Being the third owner, the second one having this car 17 years, if it costs me an extra $1000 to preserve what the first two owners loved, it's worth it. I kinda waited 30 years to come across the right car and this was it. Turned out to be a challenge, not actually having anything to do with the car itself.

I should write an online book about this car, being loved by three men over almost 60 years, complete with photos and videos. It would be quite a story.

[Mark E.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

Nick,

If this was the original engine and you're sentimental about the car, I'd say go ahead and spend the big bucks to ship the engine and/or car back and forth across the ocean.

But this engine is nothing special and its core value (that's essentially what's left) is negligible. A better and less expensive option is to get a complete engine from the mainland... either a new crate motor or one professionally built to your specs by a reputable builder. It will look virtually identical to the car's original engine (except for some cast and stamped numbers). If it means something to you, ask the builder to source a block with a casting number and date original to the car- there are plenty out there.

Compared to what you're considering, you'll save a ton in shipping costs, get a better engine, and put the car on the road sooner. Of course this assumes someone in Maui is competent enough to R&R the engine... a basic job for a line mechanic.

[Joe L.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

OK, I figured out what to do. I removed the oil pan and saw disaster, pics attached.

Best to ship it my car back across the ocean to do some other stuff and see if my engine can be rebuilt, meaning, have the metal shavings damaged the engine too far. If so, they'll give me another 350 that matches connections to my original 4 spd. I can't trust a shop here on Maui or even Honolulu.

Being the third owner, the second one having this car 17 years, if it costs me an extra $1000 to preserve what the first two owners loved, it's worth it. I kinda waited 30 years to come across the right car and this was it. Turned out to be a challenge, not actually having anything to do with the car itself.

I should write an online book about this car, being loved by three men over almost 60 years, complete with photos and videos. It would be quite a story.

Nick-------


It absolutely amazes me that there is not a competent automotive machine shop on, if not Maui, then the State of Hawaii.

[Nick D.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

Hi Mark! ok, got it. Jasper Engines looks good for me and I can use the same mechanic that I know (not the old one) and work it out. This one looks good and its $4651 incl frt plus labor. All my accessories fit on it.

https://www.jasperengines.com/panther-crate-engines

I appreciate you guys helping me out. I've cleaned the metal out of my oil best can, removed and cleaned out the oil pan so maybe I can drive it a little till the new ones. Delivery June 13!

Nick,

If this was the original engine and you're sentimental about the car, I'd say go ahead and spend the big bucks to ship the engine and/or car back and forth across the ocean.

But this engine is nothing special and its core value (that's essentially what's left) is negligible. A better and less expensive option is to get a complete engine from the mainland... either a new crate motor or one professionally built to your specs by a reputable builder. It will look virtually identical to the car's original engine (except for some cast and stamped numbers). If it means something to you, ask the builder to source a block with a casting number and date original to the car- there are plenty out there.

Compared to what you're considering, you'll save a ton in shipping costs, get a better engine, and put the car on the road sooner. Of course this assumes someone in Maui is competent enough to R&R the engine... a basic job for a line mechanic.

[Chris H.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

Excellent resolution.

[Duke W.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

I don't think the Vortec style heads will accept a Gen I inlet manifold... not sure about the OE type exhaust manifolds.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

I don't think the Vortec style heads will accept a Gen I inlet manifold... not sure about the OE type exhaust manifolds.

Duke

Duke------


That's a concern that I had when I looked at the engine in the link. I believe that some Vortec heads are dual-drilled as far as the intake manifold goes. I believe the stock exhaust manifolds will bolt up but they might install a little lower on the head than old style small block heads.

If these accept only Vortec intake manifold, then a Vortec style intake would have to be obtained.

[Joseph S.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

Duke & Joe, The Vortec heads also adds the issue of filling the oil system. There are no intakes for Vortec heads that will accept the front fill oil tube. You must then change out the valve covers in order to have the ability to fill the oil along with installing some kind of PCV system.

[Rob V.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

H Nick--

I can't help myself....

A Corvette specialist/mechanic, (and a true craftsman) that I successfully used for many years, was fond of saying, "Change '1' change '10'." [Thanks Keith B. ] Meaning if you change an item from stock configuration, you often wind up changing 10 components before you get the item to work/function properly. That is why I hate modifying these old cars from stock configuration. For instance, I have been attempting to correct back to stock a 1964 roadster that I bought 3.5 years ago that was mildly modified. Not only has it been difficult at times to identify the source of the non-stock parts, in many instances they do not perform well. And suffice it to say, my specific car, not intended to be a project when I purchased it, has spent more "down time" than operational use. A real PITA and a money pit

I would try and find a "more correct" engine for your application. For what its worth....

[Mark E.]

Re: Lifter wear and conditions it creates

Agree with Dave. Choose a new long block engine with original style heads and mounting points so you can use original intake, valve covers, accessories. This keeps cost down and makes the final result look virtually original.

To help ensure quality, focus on an all new long block from GM as suggestedby Dave, or maybe all new except for the block itself. For example some sources offer a reconditioned original block outfitted with all new parts, including cylinder heads and roller cam (e.g. ATK sold by Summit). I get nervous with used blocks and heads "remanufactured" by high volume rebuilders. It becomes unclear what's replaced vs. only inspected (like rods and valves).

Either option is about the same cost as Jasper.