New (?) Forum Board Legalese

[Owen L.]

In order to foster an atmosphere of mutual respect and professionalism, the NCRS requests all members adhere to the following Discussion Forum Standards.
The NCRS maintains the rights to compile and publish relevant conversations as a way of enhancing the shared learning through participation in the bulletin boards.
By submitting messages, information and material to this service, participants grant the NCRS a perpetual royalty-free license to reproduce, edit, modify, publish, transmit, display, and create derivative works from, distribute or perform it in whole or in part or incorporate it in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed. The collected works of these forums is the property of the NCRS and may not be posted or reproduced elsewhere without permission.
No advertising or product/service promotion will be allowed. Strictly commercial messages are prohibited. A number of forum participants are also suppliers of products or services and their participation is encouraged in providing useful information. Casual mention of a product or service by a supplier in the course of providing information shall not be construed as commercialism. Messages that, in the view of a forum administrator or moderator, are more commercial message than information may be edited or deleted.

As a former advertising photographer who is fairly familiar with copyright and usage rights, I have a problem with the blanket statement above that is now headlining the technical forum. All creative written works and photos of my cars belong to me and I will not be granting any right to use reproduce, edit, modify, publish, transmit, display, create derivative works, distribute, yadda yadda yadda.

What happened, did the NCRS hire a lawyer/firm that is now suggesting this sort of blanket CYA and content grab without permission of, or compensation to, the creator?

[Arland D.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

Owen,

It appears that someone has added a banner to the top of the TDB page consisting of the first three bullet items of the TDB 'terms of use' seen under the FAQ of the TDB. Not really new just extracted and added as a banner to the top of the page.

[Ed S.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

Why? The NCRS leadership owes the members an explanation for this new banner of legal goobly-gop.

[Michael J.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

I guess we need to watch what we attach here.

[Owen L.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

I'm sure similar wording is on all forums all across the internet, however, it really rubbed me the wrong way when I saw it. The complete rights transfer of all of writings and photos, to be used in any way for eternity by NCRS (or whatever forum) is off-putting – all without seeking any permission, offering any form of compensation, and crediting the creator is heavy-handed, cold, and selfish. The statement also allows NCRS to sell or transfer content to anyone it wants to.

That said, I thought better of my post last evening and tried to delete it but couldn't. Has the ability to delete changed?

[Terry M.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

I suppose, as Owen and Mike have pointed out, probably similar wording is on most or all terms of use that we all, without reading or thinking about agree to when we click "I agree" without reading. Often these Terms of Use run for several pages in small type that makes it hard to read, even if we wanted to. I certainly didn't realize I was giving NCRS rights to my intellectual property, and if I had known that I would have declined to participate.

What is/are the reason(s) for a new board?

With a new board beginning Saturday (tomorrow) will we all have to agree again to these terms of use?

Will the terms of use change with the new board?

I think the membership is owed some answers.

[David H.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

Why? ... an explanation for this new banner of legal goobly-gop.

Ed

"What's our's is our's and what's your's is our's too."

Pretty simple.

Whether you choose to participate is another question.

Dave

p.s. Years back, when our Tech Board was open to non-members, I joined NCRS because of that Tech Board. Not as comprehensive a range of topics as on C.F. - but quality answers.

Our TB has devolved somewhat with occasional "you've got to be kidding" threads - aka "those folks are nuts" threads.

This current, in your face, TB header statement does not foster willingness for a free exchange of information. But, is consistent with ongoing Board efforts to control access/use of member's information. e.g. We're to have an annual open Board meeting - open to all members. No physical meeting this time, but we're going to use Zoom - just sign in on Zoom. Zoom meeting will be closed to members, but you'll have access through a recording. No recording - Board decided long ago to not do recordings - sorry, just forgot. You'll get access when "comprehensive" minutes get published in Restorer. Good luck with that.

We'll likely to never know what went on in our open meeting. Anyone believe, if our annual open meeting had been calm and collected, we wouldn't have a video to watch? This current kerfuffle is just icing on the cake.

[Kevin G.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

Adios......

[Gary C.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

The NCRS Board of Directors wanted to remind members to please keep your questions and responses limited to TECHNICAL ISSUES related to Corvettes. Other posts will be deleted.

click here to read the TDB Terms of Use and Etiquette policies which were approved by the NCRS Board of Directors in 2008.

Gary Chesnut
....
IT Admin

[Patrick H.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

The NCRS Board of Directors wanted to remind members to please keep your questions and responses limited to TECHNICAL ISSUES related to Corvettes.

Gary Chesnut
....
IT Admin

Unfortunately, that isn't even mentioned in the newly added verbiage.

If that was their intent, a one-line comment replacing the current 4 paragraphs would be adequate.

[John W.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

NCRS ownership of content on the TDB has been there since 2007 or 2008.

The change is basic a change to the text at the top of the page to remind members that advertising is not allowed on the TDB. Text highlighted above is saying the same as the verbiage in the Terms of Service below, just more descriptive.

Under the FAQ Terms of Service before the change:

Terms of Use

In order to foster an atmosphere of mutual respect and professionalism, the NCRS requests all members adhere to the following Discussion Forum Standards.

• The NCRS maintains the rights to compile and publish relevant conversations as a way of enhancing the shared learning through participation in the bulletin boards.
  
• By submitting messages, information and material to this service, participants grant the NCRS a perpetual royalty-free license to reproduce, edit, modify, publish, transmit, display, and create derivative works from, distribute or perform it in whole or in part or incorporate it in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed. The collected works of these forums is the property of the NCRS and may not be posted or reproduced elsewhere without permission.
  
• No advertising or product/service promotion will be allowed. Strictly commercial messages are prohibited. A number of forum participants are also suppliers of products or services and their participation is encouraged in providing useful information. Casual mention of a product or service by a supplier in the course of providing information shall not be construed as commercialism. Messages that, in the view of a forum administrator or moderator, are more commercial message than information may be edited or deleted.
  
• No communication under a false name or impersonation of any person will be tolerated.
  
• No defamation of any person, business, governmental or other entity, product or service is allowed.
  
• No infringement of any person or entity's copyright or trademark is allowed.
  
• No spamming is allowed or tolerated.
  
• Participants agree that NCRS has no responsibility or liability for the deletion or failure to store any messages maintained or transmitted by this service.
  
• Participants agree to indemnify and hold NCRS harmless from any claim or demand made by any third party due to or arising out of content you submit, post to or transmit through this service, your use of this service, your connection to the service, your violation of the rules/etiquette guidelines, or your violation of any rights of another.
  
• Participants are responsible for all activities that occur under his/her member number and password.
  
• Violations of the Terms of Use and Etiquette Policies will result in the following suspension of NCRS on-line privileges; first violation 90 days, second violation 180 days, third violation one year, fourth violation permanent.
  
• Please be aware that participants can be held legally liable for posted comments.
  
• Regarding embedded links in postings, participants agree that NCRS is not responsible for the availability of such external sites or resources, and does not endorse and is not responsible or liable for any content, advertising, products, or other materials on or available from such sites or resources.
  
• This service is moderated by NCRS Staff for appropriate information exchange.
  

Note: NCRS reserves the right to update these rules/etiquette guidelines at any time.

The only real change was this line: Participants are responsible for all activities, threads and posts that are posted under his/her member number and password.

Old line:

• Participants are responsible for all activities that occur under his/her member number and password.

[David H.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

...

Terms of Use

In order to foster an atmosphere of mutual respect and professionalism, the NCRS requests all members adhere to the following Discussion Forum Standards.

• .....Messages that, in the view of a forum administrator or moderator, are more commercial message than information may be edited or deleted.
• No communication under a false name or impersonation of any person will be tolerated.
• No defamation of any person, business, governmental or other entity, product or service is allowed.
• No infringement of any person or entity's copyright or trademark is allowed.
• No spamming is allowed or tolerated.
• ...

Too bad these rules don't apply to our Board meetings.

Dave

[Duke W.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

I've written numerous articles over the years for The Corvette Restorer, and other publications.

For me this is a hobby or "avocation" not a vocation by which I earn a living, and I was not interested in spending the effort to copyright and then maybe have to enforce, which can involve substantial legal fees. Rather, I wanted to see the information distributed as widely as possible to other enthusiasts.

From a practical standpoint, I believe anything you put on the Web is public domain. I you want copyright, retain a legitimate publishing house.

Duke

[Gary B.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

What Duke said echoes my feelings.

Gary

[Ed S.]

Re: New (?) Forum Board Legalese

The NCRS Board of Directors wanted to remind members to please keep your questions and responses limited to TECHNICAL ISSUES related to Corvettes. Other posts will be deleted.

click here to read the TDB Terms of Use and Etiquette policies which were approved by the NCRS Board of Directors in 2008.

Gary Chesnut
....
IT Admin

Moderators have done an excellent job in policing (sorry for the use of that term) the site and deleting inappropriate posts. I think the old saying, "if it aint broke, don't fix it" applies here. The good news is someone is listening - the new, brief, header is a better. Let's move on to important stuff that really matters, like the finish on a bolt or ZDDP in oil or something like that.