Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Jeff,

Last fall I reworked the inners of an original DC-12.

Lots of lead matrix plate stuff, messy, you do have to do this carefully and I used the flat blade recip saw, worked great, took upwards of 2 hours.

Note this is not a sawzall, that vibration would destroy the real tar top surface imho.

In the end - the two posts extend down into the case. I used those with battery clamps, and most importantly, battery post size shims that upsize those two posts to the clamp size. While available on line, the source I used, once I found they were shipping from Rochester Hills, I just went there to get the clamps, and welding cable. The reason you want welding cable versus battery cable is the finer copper has more flexibility and lower resistance, means more power to the device, and not lost as heat in the copper wire. I wire modern day restomods this way... Finding a good replacement, its likely that the Odessey shown is about the only choice these days, the cca seems a bit low, not much choice with the space available. By summer I suppose I'll make the choice and finish the project.

Ronald,
Thanks for this reply. I have the 2 articles written on this by Bob Baird/Bob Muhs and Murray Forman. I like the idea of drilling and tapping the posts to attach the new cables. My question is if the bottom of the old battery is destroyed when opening it up, what is used to replace the bottom of the battery and how is it fastened to the case? Or is the bottom removed in one piece to be re-used? In any case, it must be re-attached very securely so the weight of the internal battery doesn't break it loose. I have read both articles several times and this is vague to me. What is your plan? Can you give me the name of the source in Rochester Hills for you supplies? I am also not that far away and could go there.
Thanks for your advise!
Jeff

[Ronald L.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

IMG_0108.jpgJeff, the old posts are not that big. I do Not reccommend drill and tap, less real electrical contact. The bat post shims to upsize the inner posts, which are similar in size to some off-shore cars, I got on line... this is what you need: Battery Post Adapter for JIS (Pencil Post) to SAE

AC/CD Wire and Supply. Rochester Rd. Just south of M59. They are not set up for walk-ins with their core business shipping out onine orders, call ahead, have your list of what you need. All the stuff was up front, I went with 00 wire iirc. They have LH and RH clamps that allow you get get the clamps on the posts that are tight in the corner. Their phone I found on line.

On the bottom, while I tried to cut it free, its all one piece of the case, a large molded piece that have the dividers for the six compartments, so its not going to come out cleanly. You have to carefully cut or snap off piece of the dividers to go down futher into the matrix,
that and the decomposed lead matrix of lead and paper type material were the fun part of the project.

With a mid-year battery hold down, no issue. For your '69 assuming that's the target car, harder as anything you attach can be seen. If enough of a lip on the bottom is left, you could slide in a piece of acrylic, plastic window material and that would not fall out with the weight of the battery.

Here attached is a pic of the finished product waiting for the day to drop in an Oddessey battery.

Notable is the Bakelite material is cut down in this DC-12 to gain clearance for a battery to sit on its side.

In the mid-year case, no worries about a lip to hold in a bottom cover as its all bolted down with the battery holddown & shield.

[Dave S.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Ronald,
Thanks for this reply. I have the 2 articles written on this by Bob Baird/Bob Muhs and Murray Forman. I like the idea of drilling and tapping the posts to attach the new cables. My question is if the bottom of the old battery is destroyed when opening it up, what is used to replace the bottom of the battery and how is it fastened to the case? Or is the bottom removed in one piece to be re-used? In any case, it must be re-attached very securely so the weight of the internal battery doesn't break it loose. I have read both articles several times and this is vague to me. What is your plan? Can you give me the name of the source in Rochester Hills for you supplies? I am also not that far away and could go there.
Thanks for your advise!
Jeff

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Well, yesterday I attempted to cut out the bottom of my reproduction battery and it did not go well, to say the least. After cutting into the bottom it wouldn't budge. I had to break it away in pieces to reveal the innards. What a mess! It appears to me that the Restoration Battery case was molded in one piece sans top. The plates were inserted into the case and then the top was installed and glued down. I was able to clean out the cells and now have an empty case. Unfortunately, a piece of the case broke away (cleanly) and I need to glue it back. Any suggestions as to a type of glue to use? I was thinking a thin insta-glue might be a good choice. Thoughts?
Jeff

[Ronald L.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Jeff, Black epoxy.

The material I use I have on hand for Restomod fiberglass mods, like tubs and tunnels, so its not in anything less than a quart/pint kit and about $125 wholesale.



For further clarification on this process, the cases as molded are one piece - open top.

That's why from the one I did last fall, I mention using the recip saw - not a sawzall, nor sabersaw, the jitterbug verion - less vibration, no pulling with the blade - you are cutting with a 1" up to a 2" blade.

Takes time, you go at it in layers cutting and snapping out the bakelite and chopping up that matrix of lead and phenolic paper, dump it out, repeat.

At the battery plant, they would load the cells into these compartments, and then seal up the top (with tar) in the case of the DC12, yours might have had a solid top, tell us the number of the battery you are dealing with.

[Timothy N.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

image9.jpegimage11.jpegimage10.jpegMichael, I didn't totally read through all the threads but I rebuilt my restoration battery too. they removed all the marking of the AGM inside but it's kind of easy to identify. I replaced it with a Braille Battery B3121. The battery came with a tested cranking amps of 683 and I found it to spin the starter faster than the original restoration battery. It fits in the delco case perfect. I used a steel plate for the new bottom and ran two studs up to the outer filler caps that sandwich the battery together. Tip on buying the battery. If JEGS or Summit have it, it's free shipping. Speedway has but charges for shipping or you can buy it from Braille directly. Really nice people to talk to and they make a Lithium the weighs 5 lbs that would be real fun to use but its $$. The B3121 is 21 lbs and as you have found out, the case is not exactly light. I kind of put together a "how I did it" and sent to another member and would post it if it helped people but I can't figure out how to put that much info and pictures on this forum. So if interested you could send me your email and I can send you "my way". it had some cost up front but in the end, I think its worth it because you end up with a better battery and able to replace it over and over again very easily. Tim

[Dave S.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Tim,
Having done my Tar Top by cutting out the bottom I really like your idea of cutting off the top. A little more work but the idea of the studs thru the two battery caps is genius. Also allows better access to the jumper wires and allows a bigger AGM battery due to the top access. Great job. Thanks for sharing.

[John M.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Timothy, I would love to have the "how to do it" if you would care to share.

[Ronald L.]

[Ronald L.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Timothy
Question on the Braille battery
The number you reference sells on line with 550cca

Did you get yours some time ago and we now only have the lower performing option?

[Timothy N.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Yes, shows 550 CCA and "742 cranking amps". I don't know the dimensions of Michaels battery but it looks like an Odyssey AGM. Some of those are 330 CCA. My old XS AGM that came out of my "restoration battery" had even less CCA. This 550CCA/742CA advertised really was a big jump to what I had. The car spins faster and starts up quicker , even after sitting. The amp rating is based on ambient temp so CCA is rated a zero degrees. So I think as a collector car, the CA is maybe a better apples to apples, (my thoughts) . Braille says to start the car to charge if possible every 2 weeks for 20 minutes. mine has sat for about 6 weeks and spun up fast. I liked the Braille because of the dimensions but you might find a better battery same size but I was happy with this one. I bet there are ones just as good out there.

[Timothy N.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Yes if you send me your email via private if that works, I'll send you what I have.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Reading more on the Braille site they indicate not designed for big blocks and high compression engines

A DC12 Doesnt know if it was connected to a 327 or 427, however the ratings for current reproduction DC12 are 780cca

Does anyone have the cca or ca of the original?

[Timothy N.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Hi Ronald, I looked at a DC12 from BCM (battery central mall) they show the DC12 at 560 CCA and CA at 640. Mid America shows the DC12 at 780 CCA like you said for a 1961 is all I could find. I didn't find anything for a 65-66 battery from MID A. It's a head scratcher for me. I wonder if they come from two different Mfg or possible mis-print?? I didn't study it further. When I look at the very highest CA that will fit in a case, It points to the numbers the Braille puts out at best that I could find. keep me posted please to see what you find out. BTW my car is a 65 365hp with true 11 to 1 compression. Thanks Tim

[Ronald L.]

Re: Interesting Look inside my recently (2019) purchased resto battery

Timothy,
I'm really after what the CCA or Ca were back when these were new.

Most everything we are looking at are AGM, and they have to be better than 1950s technology...