Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

[Michael M.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

You can use a battery made by Throttlex MX20L motorcycle battery 500+ CCA. Size 6.13" height x 3.44" depth x 6.88" width and 16 LBS.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

I decided to use the a-z speed return policy and price control to get both

huge difference in size for 100cca

30 is to tough wrestle in there

snapped a brass post off resuming intent to get the 30 in there

terminals end up on bottom when keeping cables shorter

tose posts are right at the bottom so a frp isolator essential to prevent grounding out

not done yet, had the post not snapped, I would have put the 20 in and called it a day

Now I’m looking for flat lugs on the weekend that will bypass the posts

Now you know why I used the 20 in that case.
I put all the spacers on the bottom of it, and jammed styrofoam on each side to hold it in place.
Worked great.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Update

nothing but huge headache

Original to car with its 66 dated diodes Alternator shorts
Looks like not charging

Blows original to car VR
After 45 minutes of run time car dies battery dead

Repaired alternator
Shunted with VR out of circuit shows alternator charging
Installed Known good VR
problem of drain continues, appears as if battery won’t charge

when I do put a regular jump on to get car started, I notice the posts are hot, never seen that in 50 years of jump charging

Patrick. What years did you use the 600cca NOCO?

[Tim G.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

I cored the guts out of an original 1967 battery over the weekend and inserted an Odyssey 450 cca battery inside. I don't know why I put Plexiglas on the bottom, but here's what it looks like. It cranked over the big block motor just fine yesterday.

[Ara G.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

I cored the guts out of an original 1967 battery over the weekend and inserted an Odyssey 450 cca battery inside. I don't know why I put Plexiglas on the bottom, but here's what it looks like. It cranked over the big block motor just fine yesterday.

Showoff, lol. Looks great Tim. Hope you're well my friend.

[Tim G.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Good to hear from you, Ara........

[Ronald L.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Now you know why I used the 20 in that case.
I put all the spacers on the bottom of it, and jammed styrofoam on each side to hold it in place.
Worked great.

Patrick

NOCO tech person has replied that these small Li batteries have a Battery Management System that limits charging.

Are you experiencing and charge issues with the 600cca?

[Frank M.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Tim,
Could you also send a copy to me at fwmaier@msn.com . Thanks.

Frank

[Tim G.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Sent this morning.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Patrick

NOCO tech person has replied that these small Li batteries have a Battery Management System that limits charging.

Are you experiencing and charge issues with the 600cca?

[Ronald L.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Patrick

thanks for the update
Noco would not clarify important details of the charge protection other than to say the output of a 37amp alternator was too much for the 700cca model. I find that a red flag.
I was looking for specifics like it shuts off above 18v and opens the charging below same after a one minute interval

I also noted after 5 minutes of charging the posts were hot, that’s not normal

I could charge it up and the car would run for 45 minutes, day light, thus no other electrical drain

On the topic of the Odyssey at 400cca, these cars aren’t likely to be at zero degrees with very thick oil, pushing the limit of the specification

needless to say with risk of being stranded, fried alternator and VR, this winter will be pulling the LI and replace with conventional

no desire to risk an original DC12

[Dan D.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Hi Folks,

Some words here on Lithium batteries:

Lithium is not a good choice for these cars.

Lithium batteries cannot be charged at a high rate. They will self-destruct (burn up), as has been discussed in this thread.
Lithium batteries cannot be over charged. They will self-destruct.
Lithium batteries cannot be dis-charged below a certain voltage, or at too high a current. They will self-destruct.

If you take apart a battery out of a battery powered drill, or any any of the Lithium powered machines that are so common now-days, you will see just how much electronics it takes to make these things stay working safely. It is why it took so long to bring this technology to market. The electronics had to be developed first.

Inside any Lithium battery, the electronics look at each cell with a sensor to monitor cell temperature, and shut the battery down if any cell gets too hot. The voltage of each cell is continually monitored as well, and is not allowed to go too high, or to go too low. The voltage for the complete battery is also monitored.

Each battery has a built-in high current fuse that will blow if the battery sees a short circuit, or even a sudden discharge rate in excess of a specified value. The fuse does not reset.

If any of these conditions occur within a battery, and given the plastic case these batteries are mounted in, they cannot be allowed to explode and burn up, which will happen if any of the above conditions occur. The human interface would be very bad.

If you are using one of these devices, you will notice that when the battery starts to run down, the machine will spin down a little bit, and then it will just suddenly stop working - dead. This is the electronics sensing a low voltage threshold has been detected and cuts off all power to the machine.

The attached photos are from a 40 volt small electric lawnmower battery that had one cell short out. Each Lithium cell (regardless of size or current rating) is about 3.7 to 3.8 volts. So this dropped the battery voltage down to about 36 - 37 volts, which was below the threshold required to operate safely. So the circuity cutoff all power to the machine. It will stay in this mode, regardless of how long you charge it, if the battery voltage does not increase to acceptable limits. When this battery lost the one cell the battery remained dead, even though the battery measured 37 volts.

The white coating on top of the electronic circuit board is a coating applied to keep out moisture. Any moisture on the board will short out the circuitry and render it inoperative. It is technically known as 'Conformal Coating'.

I'm not sure how electric cars work these days, but for sure the electronics has to be extensive, and adds considerably to the cost. And we occasionally hear of a car or bus that burned up when a battery failed.

One other thing to mention here, is if a battery does flame out, the fumes are very toxic. Get away from it. Burning plastic is very bad too.

IMG_1003.jpgIMG_1004.jpgIMG_1005.jpg

Dan

[Ronald L.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Dan

i am very familiar with ev

the technology developed there then down to these

the Battery Management System is very complicated

to that point I was suspicious that they’d work,

ok to trial since there was not internet noise,

very thank full mine did not explode or catch fire

[Dan D.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

Hi Ron.

Yes, I'm sure the management system is very complicated, and I'm sure it is under software control. I have to believe the design, both the management system and the battery technology, have been greatly improved in the last few years, as you do not hear of many battery failures these days, and the number vehicles on the road has increased significantly.

The problem is our old cars do not have a battery management system, and that is a recipe for disaster.

Dan

[Ronald L.]

Re: Cut open a lead acid battery? Possible inert a gel or agm inside?

There are likely two fail modes

First Heat - while not discussed above, and having launched hev and bev, heat management is top requirement

Ex the wannabe converters of C7 to EV refused to listen, and they struggled so long their idea and 900k cost became irrelevant.
In this topic we are putting the LI battery in a black box, no cooling, bad idea number 1.

Number 2 - electrical charge management
We are mixing sophisticated electronic with very rudimentary production and regulation
We know that they don’t mix well

Back to the AGM solution

Unless we’re out there in January and zero degrees, the lower cca won’t be much of an issue I’m expecting