Getting Judging Assignments at Regional Meets

[Mark E.]

Ed,

From my experience, getting a judging assignment at Frisco is a crap shoot. Out of about 7 requests over the past 10 years, I've been selected once. I get the impression NCRS has their favorites who fly in for the event, so the there are fewer slots for local members.

[Tony S.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Mark, the Frisco Regional is perhaps the most popular regional of the year. The Texas chapter does a terrific job organizing and running it. The facility is great. So the national flight judges are often drawn there. I can't speak for the national team leaders, but if a national judging team registers for Frisco, the Team Leader goes with his national team for a number of reasons including loyalty, product knowledge and consistency of calls.

But, some regionals are not as well attended. For instance, you would have had an easy time getting a judging assignment at the recent Oregon regional. That may be true for other regional events as well. Again, I can't and won't speak for any team leader. When I was finally picked for the 1965 national judging team several years ago, I was told that I needed to attend at least 3 regionals a year and the national convention. I hope that helps. Thanks for your devotion to our Society! Tony

[Mark E.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Tony,

I spoke with our Regional Director last year about making the judge selection process more inclusive and focused on learning. Should a member with 400 points from California have priority for a judging slot over a local member just getting started? That's the current bias. As a result, a lot of folks from outside the Region are selected as judges which prevents local, less experienced members an opportunity to participate.

To some extent, I understand the desire for the experience and consistency of "national" judges. But this should be better balanced with the greater purpose of the event: participation and learning by local members, and a more inclusive culture.

[Tony S.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Mark, as I made very clear in my prior post, I can't and won't speak for any of the team leaders. I merely point out the criteria that I was told to follow when I began regularly judging for a team at regionals and Nationals. There is an OJ system, and there has been some early discussions of a judges mentoring program, but again, I can't speak for the national judging office on that. It is for the team leaders to select the flight judges.

[Harry S.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

I believe that one of the rules a Team Leader must follow is: He must put the best team/judges together to judge the car to provide the best results to the owner. Best just means quality results, whatever the score is. If that means all 400 and 500 level judges at a Regional or National, the so be it.

[Mark E.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Harry,

You put your finger the issue. To your point, the same 400+ point judges are used across the events. Same judges, same results. But less opportunity for others to participate, less sharing, less learning. We need an approach more balanced between consistent results and engaging members.

And what's the point of having many of the same judges look at your car at Regional and then again at National?

[Tim G.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

We can always use judges at our Dallas, Austin, and Houston area Chapter meets. That's a great venue to get judging points and judging experience.

[Mike D.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

I noticed Florida listed their registered cars this year and spoiled the members, me included. It is helpful to see what cars are entered for judging at a regional or national.
To Tony's point, we start out observer judging and work our way up the master judges ladder. It isn't right to select a judge who hasn't put in the work with few judging points instead of a judge that attends multiple regionals and national events. You get out of this hobby what you put in. We did have a shortage of judges in Oregon. If you had a heartbeat, you had a judging job. We worked through it. High airfares do not help getting judges to a rural area. I fully understand why members didn't pay $1200 for a plane ticket. We will not see that same judging shortage in Frisco.

[Michael J.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

We can always use judges at our Dallas, Austin, and Houston area Chapter meets. That's a great venue to get judging points and judging experience.

Exactly Tim, or any other chapter meet most anywhere, we are always short of judges. But it seems the professional judges over 100 points shun the chapter meets as they want more points faster. Which is too bad, we need them all.

[Michael J.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Thanks Dave. By professional I really meant the ones who are always judging at regionals and nationals. I really enjoy chapter judging. I have also judged at many Rocky Mountain and Texas chapter events too, and soon Nebraska. My little chapter, where I am chapter judging chair, hardly ever has any judging events, so I like to keep informed and practiced. I have only judged in 3 regionals, each time because a team lead who knows me asked me to help when he was short handed. I doubt I will ever volunteer to judge at a regional, and certainly not a national. Just not my things.

[Joseph S.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Mark, I can't speak for anyone else. But as a newly appointed Team Leader I will tell you how I was able to judge at the Regional and Chapter level. Being interested in 1963-67 models, I made sure I attended as many Regionals and Nationals as possible, starting out as an OJ. This allowed a few Team Leaders to get to know me, my personality, my knowledge and my commitment. One thing I found out quickly, and something I will adhere to, is that having an unknown Judge assessing someone's Corvette in your section is a recipe for possible disaster. We need to give the Car owner the best possible experience during his/her judging. So judging fairly, judging properly, and treating the owner with care and respect is paramount. That being said, you can see why Team Leaders lean towards judges they are familiar with over "The guy/girl from the local chapter". It's in the best interest of the car owner, not a slight on someone who wants to judge.

Team Leaders are always willing to have an OJ with their teams. If this is not inclusive, I have no other solution. Working side by side with some of the best judges we can offer was always a treat for me.

Obviously, as I always say, this is just my simple opinion. Others may disagree.

[Tony S.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Mark, I understand your point. When Harry Ledgerwood and I were involved with the mentoring steering committee, our focus was to develop a program where selected judges with 150 to 200 points would be matched with 400+ point national judges so that the mentorees could be taught finer points in not only product knowledge and using the matrix system, but also with improving judges' rapport with owners. Our suggestions were not well received. However, I certainly support advanced mentoring to help develop the next generation of national judges...not just beginner judges. Best regards, Tony

[Michael J.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

When Harry Ledgerwood and I were involved with the mentoring steering committee, our focus was to develop a program where selected judges with 150 to 200 points would be matched with 400+ point national judges so that the mentorees could be taught finer points in not only product knowledge and using the matrix system, but also with improving judges' rapport with owners. Our suggestions were not well received.

Tony, that is really surprising. It would seem to me that is the best way to organize and structure a mentoring program. In my scientific and business career, that was the way it was done, with great success.

[Tony S.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Tony, that is really surprising. It would seem to me that is the best way to organize and structure a mentoring program. In my scientific and business career, that was the way it was done, with great success.

Michael. I agree. That was my hope when I participated in the steering committee, but I think others on the committee wanted to focus on newbie judges...which is fine. But my vision was to match middle level Master Judges chosen by a team leader and put that/those mentorees with the best 400+ level judges to help finish/polish their training. Some of the best information on how to be a top judge isn't necessarily found in a TIM JG. Of course this would have to be managed through the judging office and coordinated with the team leaders. It never got past the discussion stage. Who knows? Maybe such a program may be offered one day. I thought it had a lot of merit.

What Mike, Joe and Bob have said is 100% accurate. The other piece of it is you have to be willing to travel to be selected to judge on a team. Team leaders count on us to be present at most regionals and the national convention every year.

I think the Texas chapter does an outstanding job with the Frisco regional, and I have all the confidence in the world that Bob, Tim and the Texas chapter will do whatever it takes to make it transparent and enjoyable. It is the one regional that is a must-attend event for me every year.

Best to you all, Tony

[Mark E.]

Re: Flt. cars for Texas Regional

Mark, I can't speak for anyone else. But as a newly appointed Team Leader I will tell you how I was able to judge at the Regional and Chapter level. Being interested in 1963-67 models, I made sure I attended as many Regionals and Nationals as possible, starting out as an OJ. This allowed a few Team Leaders to get to know me, my personality, my knowledge and my commitment. One thing I found out quickly, and something I will adhere to, is that having an unknown Judge assessing someone's Corvette in your section is a recipe for possible disaster. We need to give the Car owner the best possible experience during his/her judging. So judging fairly, judging properly, and treating the owner with care and respect is paramount. That being said, you can see why Team Leaders lean towards judges they are familiar with over "The guy/girl from the local chapter". It's in the best interest of the car owner, not a slight on someone who wants to judge.

Team Leaders are always willing to have an OJ with their teams. If this is not inclusive, I have no other solution. Working side by side with some of the best judges we can offer was always a treat for me.

Obviously, as I always say, this is just my simple opinion. Others may disagree.

Joseph,

Points well taken; and I can't say I disagree. But I'm suggesting a shift (not abandonment) in how judges are selected. Currently, there's a strong bias towards selecting from a fairly small cadre of well known, 200+ point judges who the TL knows (to your point in your post). Yes, this provides consistent judging results since the same cadre travel around and judge at the Regionals and National. But the downside is fewer judging posts for others. I'm not talking about new members who should start with judging classes and OJ assignments. I'm talking about long-term members with 50-200 points who have shared it's tough getting a judging assignment.

What if NCRS moved towards selecting more Regional judges who reside in the Region? Yes, maybe even members who the TL does not know. The risk should be minimal since these members have already demonstrated their abilities by earning a significant number of points over the years.

I believe the benefits of this more balanced approach will be a deeper bench of judges across our club and broader member engagement.