Bowtie award, then what

[Patrick H.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

I suggested a seminar to deal with the very subject of this thread, but it didn't work.

I'd still be up for that, as we had discussed.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

An owner wishing an attempt at achieving both an NCRS Mark-of-Excellence Award and NCRS Chevrolet Bowtie Awards with the same car may do so ONLY in accordance with one of the following:

*At separate National Conventions: Mark-of-Excellence Award first, Bowtie Award second.

*At the same Convention: Both Duntov/McClellan and Bowtie Judging will be conducted separately during the same event.

*Surrender of the NCRS Chevrolet Bowtie Award and simultaneous judging of both Bowtie and Mark-of-Excellence.

The implication of the third option is that the car may NOT re-qualify for the Bowtie award during the second judging and you have no guarantee as to how many stars the car may achieve if any.

I believe there is a 4th option, which is the one I am doing as well as others I know. Not quoting but summarizing -

One may attempt a Duntov with a Bowtie car if done with the express permission of the Team Leader.
The Team Leader will then evaluate the car when presented for its judging events to verify that it has not been restored or altered such that it loses its Bowtie Award.

I know many cars that have done the process in this manner without surrendering the Bowtie and being re-judged as Arland describes in Option 3.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

Terry, let me ask a question about your preservation of the Bowties you have had for long periods. After all the pictures are taken, and all the TIM&JGs have been updated based on the info from any Bowtie during judging and examinations, what is left to learn by keeping it pristine and untouched, and undriven and enjoyed by those who like to drive them? I know some people enjoy looking at them in the garage as a static display, something that is not my thing but I understand it. The question is how long do you have to keep a Bowtie car preserved to feel satisfied it has done its job, accomplished its goal of learning, and you can drive it and not worry about preservation anymore? I view them like books that have been read and thus can be sold or traded without worrying about anything getting lost. I guess maybe it comes down to personal preference about what you like to do with your cars.

That's a lot of it.

Some enjoy the process of getting the awards, and then the fun is done so they sell them. Some enjoy keeping them.

I find that there's still a lot to learn even after 20 years of ownership, several Top Flights and a Bowtie. Every time we work on a new Judging Guide there are new things we discover, as well as whenever someone here asks a question I can go look at a part in a new way. Just yesterday I received a request for photos of a certain small part on my car so someone else can see what it's supposed to look like. In addition, since I work on occasional cars, having a static reference is useful beyond belief when I have a question.

I took mine to a local car show a couple of years ago, might again this year, but generally I don't attend those with a car.
Taking it as a Bowtie Display to NCRS events is always interesting, and Terry knows that he's welcome to use my car for any of his classes.

Oh, and as many know, I drove my car across 3 states to its first Regional as well as to Canada to get its Bowtie. With 60000 miles I really was not worried about adding a few more. It also was driven to display at the 2011 National. Preserving and driving are not necessarily at odds with each other.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

None of this answers the original question, which was: If a Bowtie car is fully restored (body off I am assuming), will it be stripped of the Bowtie if it comes back in for judging sometime later? Could be Duntov, could be Flight, could be Concours, but does it get the previous Bowtie award stripped from it before it will be judged?

[Gary C.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

short answer = Yes

[Kevin G.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

None of this answers the original question, which was: If a Bowtie car is fully restored (body off I am assuming), will it be stripped of the Bowtie if it comes back in for judging sometime later? Could be Duntov, could be Flight, could be Concours, but does it get the previous Bowtie award stripped from it before it will be judged?

Hi Michael, The OP asked for advice pertaining to "left as is, or did you restore the car?". I'm reading just that, from several Bowtie Award owners. Now on to your question, which should be easily answered by this......What educational value does the car have teach us, to exhibit actual factory methods of production, materials, finishes etc.? A Bowtie recipient that restores, is literally removing what can be learned. So, to answer IMO it (the Award) SHOULD be surrendered. Yes.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

I suspected as much. Thanks Gary.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

Yes, I agree, and that is why it is a slippery slope to keep one and try to drive and enjoy it that way. Things will need to be fixed, repaired, replaced, etc., so each item brings it closer to being disbarred and blacklisted, as it were, from Bowtie quality.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

In my opinion the Corvettes that are original & have not been tore apart since they left the factory are by far better driving cars that ones that have been frame off. Dont care who did the work. Cant duplicate the factory build feel.

[Mark F.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

The JRM says "...NCRS Bowtie scoring sheets are not returned to the owner..."

Does that mean the owner doesn't get the original scoring sheets, but gets copies of them?

Or, does that mean they don't get any copies of the scoring sheets?

If the latter, why are Bowtie scoring sheets not provided to the owner?

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

It is the latter, you will not get the sheets or copies. When I did mine, the team leader reviewed them and told me what my scores were on the 4 stars. Not sure why they are not returned though, above my pay grade.

[Michael J.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

I would not agree with that, old 55+ years old cars have numerous items that get loose, wear out, rust, discolor, and generally need to be restored/replaced for a fresh, new car feel and look. They also are not safe with old parts like that, and generally are much more reliable after restoration, in my experience.

[Steve B.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

Paul, there is another option. For historical purposes, I would never consider restoring a 4 star bowtie car but that said, it's your car and of course your decision. If it is causing you stress as to what to do with it, consider selling the car to someone who will keep it as is. Good luck with whatever decision you go with.

[James G.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

MY car recently reieved 3 stars and I said... now I am finished and can display and drive the car.
I will drive it as much or more(a few thousand miles per year) than I did prior to the star award as now I am not as concerned about the car being as clean from road debris.

[Kevin G.]

Re: Bowtie award, then what

I believe there is a 4th option, which is the one I am doing as well as others I know. Not quoting but summarizing -

One may attempt a Duntov with a Bowtie car if done with the express permission of the Team Leader.
The Team Leader will then evaluate the car when presented for its judging events to verify that it has not been restored or altered such that it loses its Bowtie Award.

I know many cars that have done the process in this manner without surrendering the Bowtie and being re-judged as Arland describes in Option 3.

Dr. Hulst, I will have to go back and check the dates,......but I think, I was able to have both the Bowtie Judging and Final flight @ 97. for my Duntov at the same National Convention in Marlborough?


Edit: After rereading Mr Dower's post, I see that option was stated.

And to the OP, both the cars that earned the Bowtie Award under my ownership have remained EXACTLY as judged, as is.....