'67 Help with authentication - two cars

[Leif A.]

A friend has an opportunity to buy these two cars from an estate. I have seen both cars and both are very nice. They're both supposed to be 427/435 cars. Before he pulls the trigger, may I have your input on both. Some pictures below (many more if needed)...and, thank you in advance.

[Patrick B.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

The engine stamping on 324 is not even close. The engine stamping on 672 is pretty good. I hope it would earn some credit in judging, but I have doubts that it is original. My doubts are mainly based on the vin. I think the transmission vin stamp is original (assuming there is a 7 behind the obstruction at the beginning of the vin) and the zeros seem narrower than those on the engine. It is hard to compare them because of the camera angles, but the engine vin zeros look a little too wide. A buyer should compare the 2 vin stamps carefully if this is being presented as a true factory stamp.

[Patrick H.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

To add to what Patrick noted (as if anyone can add...), I think that the 7's of the 672 appear slightly different from each other, and the engine code stamp on that same engine appears to have 2-3 bounces or underlying practice attempts.

[Don H.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

I suggest you ask Tim Gilmore to weigh in. Chances are he knows these L71s, and has info on them (good or bad).

[Harry S.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

There will be many positive, neutral, run-forest-run comments. But at the end of the day, if they are priced as small block cars, it still may be a deal.

[Leif A.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

The engine stamping on 324 is not even close. The engine stamping on 672 is pretty good. I hope it would earn some credit in judging, but I have doubts that it is original. My doubts are mainly based on the vin. I think the transmission vin stamp is original (assuming there is a 7 behind the obstruction at the beginning of the vin) and the zeros seem narrower than those on the engine. It is hard to compare them because of the camera angles, but the engine vin zeros look a little too wide. A buyer should compare the 2 vin stamps carefully if this is being presented as a true factory stamp.

Patrick,
I was hoping you would chime in...your learned opinion carries serious cred. I share your insights. 324 is kinda funky looking. You should see the stamp on the transmission...starts with 78 instead of 7S. Beautiful car, though. 672 shows 36XXX miles on the odometer and the owner has owned it since 1991...swears it's original miles and the chassis and the rest of the car look like it.
My friend can own them both for $150000...thoughts??

[Leif A.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

To add to what Patrick noted (as if anyone can add...), I think that the 7's of the 672 appear slightly different from each other, and the engine code stamp on that same engine appears to have 2-3 bounces or underlying practice attempts.

Patrick,
Thanks. And, I concur with your observations.

[Leif A.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

I suggest you ask Tim Gilmore to weigh in. Chances are he knows these L71s, and has info on them (good or bad).

Don,
If I don't hear from Tim in this thread, I will contact him. He certainly knows his way around these '67 435s. Thank you.

[Mark F.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

Patrick, I was hoping you would chime in...your learned opinion carries serious cred. I share your insights. 324 is kinda funky looking. You should see the stamp on the transmission...starts with 78 instead of 7S. Beautiful car, though. 672 shows 36XXX miles on the odometer and the owner has owned it since 1991...swears it's original miles and the chassis and the rest of the car look like it. My friend can own them both for $150000...thoughts??

Hi Leif,
Have they been NCRS-judged? - Chapter? - Regional? - National?

Regardless, two '67 435s for $75k each...even if there's a "run-forrest-run" in the woods out there - that's pretty good.
Resale (flip?) of one of them to a non-NCRS purists to pay for the other "keeper" car would probably not be hard...

Good Luck!

[Keith B.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

the trim tag on the white car is very suspect along with the rivets

[Leif A.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

Hi Leif,
Have they been NCRS-judged? - Chapter? - Regional? - National?

Regardless, two '67 435s for $75k each...even if there's a "run-forrest-run" in the woods out there - that's pretty good.
Resale (flip?) of one of them to a non-NCRS purists to pay for the other "keeper" car would probably not be hard...

Good Luck!

Mark,
Don't think they've ever been judged. I recommended to my friend that we pay NCRS to find original dealer and if any awards have ever been earned. I, also, thought that $150000 for the pair was a "no brainer"...especially in the current market. The frames, birdcage, etc are sanitary. And, YES, he is going to flip both of them.

[Owen L.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

To add to what Patrick noted (as if anyone can add...), I think that the 7's of the 672 appear slightly different from each other, and the engine code stamp on that same engine appears to have 2-3 bounces or underlying practice attempts.

I'm nowhere near as experienced with these as the rest of you... there is definitely a ghosted image on both engine builds with the 672 being much more subtle. I'm wondering if the car wasn't originally a JF engine. The 324 stamp obviously exhibits variable character spacing and baseline alignment. $150k for both seems pretty clear they have questionable authenticity.

[David H.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

the trim tag on the white car is very suspect along with the rivets

+1 on Trim Tag comment - VERY SUSPECT !

Rivets on white car VIN Tag look suspect as well.

Dave

[Jimmy G.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

My 2 cents worth

Questions that need to be answered before value can be determined.

1. Are they real 435 cars
2. Any documentation?
3. From a Judging Point point of view
3a. Casting Dates and Numbers - What are they (block, rear end, transmissions, carbs, alternator, radiator etc)
3b. Body and frame condition and level of restoration?
3c. Base Coat - Lacquer ?
4d. Real Side Pipe car?
4e. Operational condition for judging?

If you answer no to one or more of those issues then to NCRS they do not have a lot of high value (in my opinion) and would need to be sold at street level pricing

[Leif A.]

Re: '67 Help with authentication - two cars

"Questions that need to be answered before value can be determined.

1. Are they real 435 cars - That's what I'm trying to determine.
2. Any documentation? - None that he's found yet.
3. From a Judging Point point of view
3a. Casting Dates and Numbers - What are they (block, rear end, transmissions, carbs, alternator, radiator etc) - Hit and miss on this stuff...some good some not.
3b. Body and frame condition and level of restoration? - Both very nice frames, immaculate condition, 20 year old restorations, then parked.
3c. Base Coat - Lacquer ? - Both appear to be BC/CC
4d. Real Side Pipe car? - No notches in birdcage, so NO.
4e. Operational condition for judging? - Some issues there because they've been sitting for so long.

If you answer no to one or more of those issues then to NCRS they do not have a lot of high value (in my opinion) and would need to be sold at street level pricing"


Jimmy,
You bring up some terrific points. See my answers above. My friend is certainly not going to bring them up to NCRS specs but will service them, and fix the operational stuff before he sells them. It appears that what we have here is a couple of very nice, NOM drivers.